Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#851

Post by consteval » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #787

david-gpu wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorists in Toronto have killed 34 people so far this year and seriously injured an additional 146 [0]. Meanwhile the TTC, with daily ridership in the million people range [0] has seen one homicide [2]. Which one is safer? [0] https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-tra... [1] https://www.ttc.ca/transparency-and-accountability/Operating... [2] https://www.blogto.com/city/2024/06/outrage-person-murde…

Noted, while I appreciate the citation it isn't entirely correct. How many of those are Uber specifically with passengers? Why this specific? Because Uber has a ranking system and my gut feels says anything with a ranking system that has tons of feedback weeds out bad drivers. The other portions of my comments is psychological safety, how many times do individuals get in an Uber and feel unsafe vs being in the TTC? H…

I mean... this is a huge stretch. Car accidents are, more or less, completely out of your control as a driver. You can be an amazingly defensive driver and die. And you can drive like an ass and get lucky.

In fact, I'm sure a lot of those Uber drivers are rated well because they get there fast. Well, you have to drive like a maniac for that. In the city you need to drive bold if you want to get there with limited BS. That means risking your life.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#852

Post by consteval » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #227

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason nobody uses public transit in America is it's always packed with transients or dangerous people. That's a lie told by people who sell fear as a product to people who always want new reasons to live in fear.

Remember folks, if someone says they don't want to ride transit with a hobo smoking meth, they're lying and they're a bad person. Even if they've previously experienced it firsthand.

I know half a dozen people who have died in a car accident. I'm in my 20's.

I don't think those people are lying. I think they're 100% telling the truth... about 5% of the picture. Some consider that dishonest.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#853

Post by caseyy » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

consteval wrote: post #842

account42 wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Normal people" have been on overcrowded trains with spotty service. They know what putting someone else in charge of how, when and where they can travel inevitably turns out.

"Normal people" also know multiple people who have died in car accidents. They also struggle to walk up a flight of stairs and hate their lives. Once again, you cannot trust what so-called "normal people" say. Particularly when there's political pressure at play. I'll say it again, but plenty of people would happily shoot themselves if they got to pull the trigger. Hyper-individualism of the US, and the rest of the W…

Perhaps normal people also have a more substantiated view of facts :)

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#854

Post by consteval » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 5:30 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #765

occz wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like satire, but I'm not sure that it is and it's frightening me a bit.

What’s satirical about it? Why would people want a world where they are forced to live on top of each other in small places if they don’t have to due to plentiful energy and vast material wealth? If some new age Protestant needs to live worse to fulfill some spiritual hole then they can do it. But everyone else wants a large yard, comfortable home with many rooms, nice cars, and well maintained infrastructure to driv…

Because living further apart means more driving, which sucks? And it means less community, which sucks? And it means you'll be fatter and die earlier, which sucks?

I'm not saying those are 100% true. I'm saying those are reasons and I can think of much, much more.

There's pros and cons to everything.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#855

Post by GuB-42 » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 5:40 PM UTC

caseyy wrote: post #793

zelphirkalt wrote: post #39

Well, of course, if we didn't have traffic ministers again and again, who do everything they can to make rail less attractive and road more attractive, then we could probably have a great system. But automobile lobby is so strong, they buy all the politicians in that role, probably even before they land in that role, so I guess normal people will have to keep suffering, so that those politicians can have a life of lu…

Quite many "normal people" also enjoy the freedom of the automobile. It has contributed significantly to the culture of autonomy, unity on large scales (beyond one's local town), and cosmopolitanism. Online, it is acceptable to be cynical about cars, but in the real world, among common people, this mindset is not that prevalent. Even in European countries lauded for great public transport, people own and enjoy cars.…

Personal opinion but I see personal cars as more of a burden than freedom, compared to public transport.

You need to care for the car even when you are not travelling. You need a parking space, insurance, maintenance, etc... And when you are driving, you need to be attentive, sober, and well rested, otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others. With public transport, you have none of that, no one will die if you take a nap, and once you are at your destination, you are free, you don't have a ton of metal to care for.

The same applies to taxis and ridesharing, but public transport is usually more efficient and cheaper.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#856

Post by carlosjobim » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 6:00 PM UTC

consteval wrote: post #843

carlosjobim wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 25 year old car is still several orders of magnitude more complex than a house. Any man can build a house for himself and his family if he sets his mind to it. Almost no man can build an even semi-modern car. They depend on huge supply chains and thousands of specialized workers. The house is artificially made more expensive than the car, as a vehicle for inflationary money making.

The house is "made more expensive" because land and materials are scarce. You can, right now, build your own house. And it won't be cheap if it's anywhere that matters. Also we have standards and regulations. Turns out burning down entire cities because of some cost cutting sucks, so we did away with that.

Neither land nor materials are scarce. They've been artificially made expensive to prop up the feudal system. This planet is still mostly wilderness - go zoom in anywhere on Google Maps and you'll see. And building materials are easy to find in nature everywhere except for in the oceans and the deserts.

I know it's easy and a habit to always defend the status quo, no matter what it is, but when it comes to housing the situation is much beyond ridiculous. I can purchase a literal airplane for half of what it would cost me to buy a run-down shack where I'm from, which is a region that neither has any high paying jobs nor lack of space. It's a mostly deserted, low-population density region, with population shrinking every year because people cannot afford a fucking simple house to live in. Housing prices has nothing to do with economy nor supply and demand. It is all politics and it's all a scam.

By the way, what do you think it takes in energy, factories and labour to make the material needed for a car? A whole lot more than what it takes for a house.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#857

Post by consteval » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 6:06 PM UTC

caseyy wrote: post #853

consteval wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Normal people" also know multiple people who have died in car accidents. They also struggle to walk up a flight of stairs and hate their lives. Once again, you cannot trust what so-called "normal people" say. Particularly when there's political pressure at play. I'll say it again, but plenty of people would happily shoot themselves if they got to pull the trigger. Hyper-individualism of the US, and the rest of the W…

Perhaps normal people also have a more substantiated view of facts :)

What does this mean?

The reality of the human condition is that humans will always GREATLY favor the status-quo, no matter what. Because they're already living it and, if they're not dying, they have a strong survival incentive to maintain it. Change is risk, and risk is bad.

When I get in my car to drive, I don't think "oh God this has the greatest chance of killing me out anything I can do". Even though it's true. Do you know why I don't think that?

Because that sucks ass. If I had to live like that, I'd probably kill myself. I'm here, with the status-quo. So, I must make the best of it.

I'm not unique. Every single person, you included, lives like this. You have no choice but to ignore as much of the bad shit as you can, because you can't fix it in your lifetime.

It's much easier, and better for your own health, to believe people are getting stabbed like kabobs in the subway and you're oh so safe and comfy in your nice suburban home. That's a much better thought process than the reality, which is that you're much more likely to die and it's not even close. So that's what you choose to believe and that's the belief you nourish.

It's comfirmation bias, but it's the life blood of the human condition. The alternative is worse.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#858

Post by andrepd » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

retinaros wrote: post #757

CydeWeys wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cities and councils should not be making decisions based on how to raise revenue. ... although if they were, the price of parking would be way higher. The optimal price for parking is a time-and-day-dependent price set high enough that around 10% of spots everywhere in the city are free at any given time, so that people who need parking can generally find it conveniently nearby to where they're going.

parking costs over 200euros a day in Paris. the city also is on the board of private parking companies…. conflict of interest is high, corruption is also knocking at the door. greenwashing is the new criminal activity for suits

Yeah, any sane person looks at Paris and their first thought is "hmm, this needs more cars".

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#859

Post by consteval » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 6:11 PM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #33

waveBidder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the same reason omnivores are sometimes highly critical of veg*ns: there's a moral claim going on, so their identity/ moral standing is threatened.

It's not a question of moral standing or identity but rather that public transport (and vegan) advocates would like to force you to live like they do. Those things gaining too much popularity threatens the way you do things. We have examples of this happening, eg smoking. It has become unpopular enough that governments pass nonsensical bans like banning flavored cigarettes or just making it entirely illegal for only…

> would like to force you to live like they do

Okay, so it's exactly a question of moral standing and identity.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#860

Post by andrepd » Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #748

ciceryadam wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you are an American, without telling me you are an American. You can reach a children's park on foot or by taking public transportation, so ideally there's no need for a parking lot right next to it.

You can visit your local park hopefully you live in an area with one. You can invest time using transit to get to another park. Traveling during rush hour would be difficult. Traveling with many children or younger children adds a difficulty. Being disabled or older or worse disabled with children more difficult. For the young, childless, plenty of time on their hands or live next to a park of course walking a few st…

What percentage of people driving around in their 3-ton trucks are disabled? This is an argument for fewer cars, not more: so that people who truly need it can use it more efficiently.