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Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

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Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only White House request to censor was from Trump mad at being called a vulgarity by Chrissy Teigen. https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/02/20/james-comers-twitter-h... Being pressured to enforce your own terms of service by the government ain't censorship. Zuckerberg is a coward, afraid to stand up to Jim Jordan. What a pathetic letter

> Being pressured to enforce your own terms of service by the government ain't censorship. When your ToS are vague enough to apply to just about anything (as most are), it absolutely can be.

Not really? They control the ToS and are not under special obligation to enforce them correctly from the government.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#852
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuckster is an "anti-elite" heir to a fortune who grew up in a castle. The only job he ever had was outrage baiting naive people. People like him are against regulation, but will clap any time big tech is dragged in front of congress. It's all a scam. You're being had. Why are you treating any part of his interviews as valid information.

I wonder if you're incapable of seeing what's amiss with your 'hack' job on Carlson.

No hack job needed on someone who can't call themselves news without going to jail.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/all-the-texts-fox-ne...

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#853
post #589
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What polls have trump in the lead in the swing states right now? I haven't seen any high power polls that have trump in an obvious lead.

Polls are worthless.

https://x.com/HuffPost/status/795663593689808896

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#854
post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup I totally agree, because bad things can happen we shouldn't try to do anything. Much simpler.

His point was that a tax on unrealized gains can one day be applied to less wealthy people. I can explain it to you with a simple example: Imagine, for instance, you're making 50k a year and have a brokerage account that has appreciated by 100k and that you're being taxed 20% on unrealized gains in year x. In year x+1, say your account falls back to where it was before. You paid 20k plus another 10k, and you will nee…

My point was that just because we impose a new tax on unfathomably wealthy people, it doesn't mean that we are inherently going to impose that tax on normal people. We can't be so scared of our own shadow that we are paralyzed into inaction. So scared of new taxes imposed on ourselves that we don't try to tax the uber wealthy. At the end of the day this is a democracy (obv with flaws, but still a democracy.) If politicians start taxing your 100k investment fund the way they are taxing a 100M investment fund, vote them out.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup I totally agree, because bad things can happen we shouldn't try to do anything. Much simpler.

Maybe if you stopped with the sarcasm and thought about this critically you'd see that the solution isn't taxing everyone to death, but reducing the out-of-control government spending. Because at the rate the government is spending money, you will be paying this "capital gains" tax in 2 decades on a much smaller balance.

A new type of tax on the absolute wealthiest of the wealthy is not "taxing everyone to death." I'm sure there are some great ways we can reduce/improve government spending, but that is completely separate from the idea that the mega-rich should be paying more.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrealized gains taxes is an extractive and totalitarian tax. Someone is always risking 100% loss until they realize those gains. It's an affront to entrepreneurial risk-taking and it's capricious. It would be just as ridiculous to allow someone to write-off unrealized losses.

The point is that none of these guys are risking 100% of anything. Meta stock is liquid. You can sell it or hedge. You might slip 10% but it’s vanishingly unlikely to lose 100%. The well-known tax dodge is to avoid realizing gains by borrowing against your stock. Say you pledge $1b as collateral on a loan. If interest rates are lower than your stock appreciation, the loan is free. So you don’t ever need to realize th…

> The point is that none of these guys are risking 100% of anything. Meta stock is liquid. You can sell it or hedge. You might slip 10% but it’s vanishingly unlikely to lose 100%.

All companies eventually go to zero and some of them do it without a lot of notice. How many people in the year 2000 expected Kodak to be bankrupt in a dozen years?

But that isn't even the main problem.

Suppose you own 51% of your company, i.e. a controlling interest. The company is doing very well under your leadership -- value doubles. But then you have to pay tax on the unrealized gain. The shares are your main asset so the only way to pay is to sell them. Now you no longer have a majority of the shares and control of the company moves to the soulless Wall St vampire squid which only cares how much money they can extract from your customers by any means necessary.

But it gets worse, and this time the "worse" includes for the government. You're forcing people to sell their shares in order to pay the tax, but selling shares, at scale? That lowers the stock price. Which lowers the amount of the capital gain. Which lowers the government's revenue. And the value of everybody's pension fund and 401(k).

Then it gets even worse for the government. Normally the way the stock market works is that it will go up by a little over 10% a year but then once in a while it will fall by 50% as the economy enters a recession. Right now what happens is that investors buy the stock, it goes up little by little, and when the recession hits they give back some of their gains but are still ahead of where they were when they bought the stock ten or twenty years ago. When the recession hits most of them still have an unrealized gain, so anyone who sells shares is still reporting a gain and paying taxes. Which the government desperately needs at that very moment to deal with the recession, because their other revenues will be down too. If the government taxes unrealized gains then government revenue from capital gains goes to zero when a recession hits, because basically nobody has a capital gain that year and the tax revenue from all past capital gains has already been spent. If you do this, the next time there is a recession the government is screwed.

> Say you pledge $1b as collateral on a loan. If interest rates are lower than your stock appreciation, the loan is free.

Which is exactly what the government does with unrealized capital gains. If they demand the money right now, it forces the shares to be sold, and since we're talking about something that happens at national scale, on net they'll be sold to someone outside the jurisdiction who doesn't pay US taxes. So the government gets the money now but they lose the future tax on the capital gain from the money that would have stayed invested in the stock market.

In other words, they get $100 now but that $100 in tax would have otherwise stayed invested and each year it would increase by 12%. Meanwhile the government is paying less than 4% on multi-year bonds. So tax revenue that would be collected by allowing the money to continue to be invested is by itself nearly as much as the government would pay to borrow it instead, before you account for the effects on capital gains of depressing stock prices by forcing sales.

Doing this could very realistically lower government revenue.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#857

I wonder if this is coming up just before the election because of the Harris campaign’s suggested policy of capital gains tax on unrealised gains for people who have over $100m in assets? I think this is a great idea personally given what these people are doing to avoid paying tax including taking out loans against their own share portfolios. Worth thinking about what people are willing to do to not pay billions of d…

Unrealized gains taxes is an extractive and totalitarian tax. Someone is always risking 100% loss until they realize those gains. It's an affront to entrepreneurial risk-taking and it's capricious. It would be just as ridiculous to allow someone to write-off unrealized losses.

Not true, any time there is a risk of substantial loss the tax-payers have to bail these gambling addicts out.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He donated 400m to funding election infrastructure. How is that donating to Democrats?

There are concerns that they paid for infrastructure in deeply democratic areas and ignored areas that were republican-leaning, in effect making it a Democratic get out the vote initiative. The media doesn't seem too interested in figuring out the actual impact, so I don't think any of us really know if it was balanced or not. But this doesn't strike me as the type of thing we want billionaires doing regardless.

> There are concerns that they paid for infrastructure in deeply democratic areas and ignored areas that were republican-leaning

Concerns without evidence are nothing. Is there any evidence at all this occurred? Why aren't Republicans attacking Musk donating 10's of millions of dollars to directly help Trump?

I mean, we know why they aren't attacking him. Because they're complete hypocrites.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like it would make sense to stop allowing people to put up their stock as collateral on these types of loan, rather than taxing unrealized gains. Even if losing 100% is unlikely, someone could lose control of their company. Say I own 51% of my company. Harris wants 25%. I sell my shares to cover it… if my math is right, I then own 38.25%, the year after that, 28.6%, then 21.5%, 16, 12, 9… the control is gone…

Nope, your maths is not right, once your unrealised tax has been paid you don’t pay it every year in the same way you don’t keep paying capital gains on realised profits. Maybe read up on this before commenting.

That math is still pretty close to right for a growing company. Let's say you're the founder of a company with a market cap that makes it to ~$100B. To get from $100M to $100B, the value of the company has to double every year for ten years. So if the tax rate is 25%, for each year the price doubles you lose 12.5% of your shares.

By the end of ten years you have barely a quarter of what you started with. If that was 51%, it's now 13% and the MBAs come to ruin your company.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#860

It's funny because Facebook's news feed in the last couple years is unusable, filled with AI slop and clickbait. Twitter similarly requires aggressive use of block + mute to eliminate scams, clickbait, and other content I'm not interested in. I don't know if this is due to their changes in moderation policy, or if AI has overwhelmed them, but I vastly preferred the old news feeds

Fwiw, I experience the same on LinkedIn.
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