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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#851

Post by leereeves »

jonbodner wrote: post #705
leereeves wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HRW should be "tough" on any nation that violates people's human rights. That's their mission. And it seems like they are. They're tough on Saudi Arabia too.

Sure. But it’s hard to ignore that they are far harsher on Israel than any other country. But don’t take it from me. Take that from a senior editor who left HRW after 13 years: https://www.timesofisrael.com/outgoing-human-rights-watch-se...

Her objections include: "HRW’s initial reactions to the Hamas attacks...included the ‘context’ of ‘apartheid’ and ‘occupation’"

And "political framing that could always contextualize and “explain” why Jewish Israeli lives were lost in Palestinian violence."

It sounds like she wanted their coverage to be more one-sided. Explaining "the ‘context’ of ‘apartheid’ and ‘occupation’" is perfectly valid.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#852

Post by [deleted] »

boringg wrote: post #66
moshun wrote: post #32

For context, a total of 69 journalists were killed in WWII, 63 in the Vietnam war both of which lasted several years. As of today March 6th 2024, the Gaza invasion has left 86 journalists dead in less than 4 months. That is an amazingly high percentage for the expected mean in a conflict. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel... https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-j…

That may be true but a couple things have changed since those very dated sample points. (1) Definition of journalist (2) quantity of journalists (3) willingness to be on the very front lines in order to get better stories (4) technology enabling journalists thus being able to be more dangerous spots. (5) speculation -> journalists who are using press credentials as cover I'm neither way on the conflict but want to co…

[deleted]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#853

Post by flimsythoughts »

jstarfish wrote: post #820
drc500free wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interesting and delicate conversation about how a twenty-something engineer in the military ends up frequenting anti-military and anti-democracy subreddits. I think that fits in with hn. There is another interesting and delicate conversation about what that person thought about Gaza and about Israeli Jews, and where those ideas came from. He posted on Reddit that Hamas's stated intent to destroy Israel -…

[flagged]

That is a wild take on the comment you are responding to. Are you sure you are responding to the right comment?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#854

Post by runarberg »

rbanffy wrote: post #800
gizmo wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The status quo is already effectively a single-state solution. Israel is the only party with an army, the only party that can elect politicians, the only party with airports and a harbor, and a functioning economy. Israel also has almost total control over Golan, West Bank and Gaza. Why would Israel award citizenship and the right to vote to the oppressed minority? If the majority between the river and the sea wanted…

Gaza had an airport until 2005 or so, but it was bombed. Gaza also has a political system - Hamas was elected, same as Likud. I'd say it's probably not working right now, for obvious reasons. > The status quo is what the people of Israel want (revealed preference by their votes). And Palestinians don't get a vote. Politics is rarely that clear-cut. The electorate was shaped by their environment and rarely sees what h…

This is a gross simplification. Both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have tried to hold elections, last time was in 2021. The Palestinian Authority actually held local elections in the West Bank that year. However being occupied does not make elections easy. In 2021 in particular the national elections fell through because Israel didn’t allow Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem to participate. Hamas wanted to hold the election despite that, but the Palestinian Authority cancelled the elections.

Hamas was elected almost two decades ago, and Palestinians in Gaza have been occupied ever since by Israel. Yes, they do have a political system, but said political system is not democratically driven. It is driven by the Israeli occupying forces, in ultimate control by Israeli voters. Both the military administration, Israeli politicians, and Israeli voters show no desire to change this.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#855

Post by hef19898 »

gataca wrote: post #847
hef19898 wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Hamas attacked, killed and kidnapped people in a terror attack to protest this. Also to have hostages to exchange for some of their own. And yes, these "own" are Hamas members and not the innocent bystanders. Was there ever any doubt about this? None of that justifies, again, the levelling of Gaza, the starving of around 500,000 people and the deliberate targeting of civilians who have nothing to do with any of…

> There is a term for this: ethnic cleansing Actually the term for this is: war Hamas can surrender and release the hostages to end the war. Until then Israel is justified in pursuing their 'complete and utter destruction'

No, the term is ethinic cleansing. In war there are rules regarding civilians, rules Israel ignoring. And no, (in)actions by the enemy do not give the otherside a justification to do whatever they want. Rules and laws still apply during war.

I tired so tryong to get that point across to people. And worried what that attitude might mean for the future.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#856

Post by runarberg »

incognos wrote: post #728
gataca wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Again debunked, the UN investigation did not speak to any victims or physicians that would validate the claim. The claims came from organizations known to have lied in the past. Why would Israel forbid the doctors involved from speaking to the UN? ( https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-fro... )

Just to make things clear. Few people are denying that sexual violence did occur. These were a bunch of men doing a bunch of violence to other people, I would be shocked if none of them did sexual violence.

What people are debunking is the notion that Hamas used sexual violence as a weapon of war. There are no evidence for that (nor for sexual violence at all, it is just that it is very plausible). And the use of such stories in propaganda purposes.

This is in contrast to the Israeli military who has been recorded using sexual violence as a weapon of war against Palestinians on multiple occasion.

What makes this disgusting, is the use of stories of sexual violence to propagandize anti-Palestinian sentiment. Sexual violence is a horrible crime, that is truly horrendous for the victims. The victims of such crimes deserve better than their horrors being used to justify other crimes.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#857

Post by LAC-Tech »

rendall wrote: post #630
GordonS wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

Open your eyes. That's just post justification for when the IDF destroys schools, mosques and hospitals.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#858

Post by golergka »

hef19898 wrote: post #823
golergka wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not sure what want to say, but here some dates, courtesy of wiki: - Hamas won 42.5% in the elections in 2006, no elections took place since - Hamas support was not strong, based in the few pols done, it increased after Israels attack And the last bit what is so not surprising. Edit: If you are interested in how we ended up with this cluster fuck, wikipedia is good place. Start way back so, in 50s, to get the necessar…

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#859

Post by pests »

septic-liqueur wrote: post #830
jstarfish wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Same as Hamas is fighting an asymmetrical warfare at a disadvantage by IDF, IDF is at the same disadvantage on the journalistic side. They have the monopoly on reporting their side while Hamas is every person with a camera creating whatever narrative they want. So yeah I can see why you choose not to take their word when they say that they have evidence. But trust me bro :-) But seriously now, I don't really understa…

> it would be shocking to discover Hamas is operating from hospitals, mosques and schools.

I don't think you're wrong, but I think its wrong when the response is "lets bomb them" instead of figuring out something else.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#860

Post by dragonwriter »

hef19898 wrote: post #823
golergka wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not sure what want to say, but here some dates, courtesy of wiki: - Hamas won 42.5% in the elections in 2006, no elections took place since - Hamas support was not strong, based in the few pols done, it increased after Israels attack And the last bit what is so not surprising. Edit: If you are interested in how we ended up with this cluster fuck, wikipedia is good place. Start way back so, in 50s, to get the necessar…

> Hamas won 42.5% in the elections in 2006, no elections took place since

...because Israel (which still occupies and directly administers some of the territory involved) has refused to cooperate with joint PA/Hamas agreements on subsequent all-Palestine elections, preferring to freeze in place the current split and presence of "elected" governments that most people subject to weren't eligible to vote (and in Gaza, where the median age is about the interval since the election, its right on the edge of the the majority not even having been alive) at the last election.

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