Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

851–860 of 903 posts

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#851

Post by johnnyworker »

859throwaway wrote: post #537
Tostino wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes... You had plenty of people saying "this is going to be your own version of Afghanistan/Iraq if you decide to do what you want to do..." Israel wanted revenge, not a solution. Their strategy has guaranteed that there will be another cycle of violence as the kids that grew up seeing their parents blown up in airstrikes are understandably going to be ripe for recruiting into whatever organization steps into power i…

I find such sentiment flabbergasting. Do you claim that Germany and Japan continued cycles of violence because the Allies firebombed Dresden and nuked Hiroshima? We learned after the two world wars that peace is possible if and only if there is hope, reconstruction, and a magnanimous victor. Hold Israel and the UN accountable to that. “Pacifists” preach the myth that resistance is a futile tragedy. But unfortunately…

You compare Gaza, half of the population being children, with Nazi Germany and talk about learning from history? While the IDF is blowing up courts and universities and people talk on Israeli TV about making Gaza "unlivable"?

The Nazis talked about the people they murdered exactly the same way. Himmler and his stuff about the great sacrifice the SS made for the benefit of humanity, all that... they excused murdering children with "international bankers", the same way people excuse genocide in Gaza with Hamas. "No side is innocent, it's all so very complex". Nothing changed.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#852

Post by preciousoo »

zarzavat wrote: post #692
mgraczyk wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ran lots of experiments, including asking people survey questions, monitoring usage, asking people offline to try both, etc You're wrong about the design of algorithmic feeds. I worked on them, that's not how we designed them.

How about giving the people the option and letting them decide for themselves. Also, 20% of people is hundreds of millions of people .

Facebook engr is famous for popularizing the phrase “one in a million happens every millisecond” so this 20% hand wringing is funny to me

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#853

Post by smsm42 »

johnnyworker wrote: post #827
smsm42 wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not fair if we ban things in one direction and not the other If Hamas would show around the maps, and Netanyahu would show around the maps - I'd say, no problem, let them both have their maps. That's not what Hamas is doing. Hamas has just murdered over 1300 people in Israel, after a long string of lesser murders over 18 years, and after shooting rockets into Israel day to day for all those years. And they pla…

Right, the defense minister is handing out assault rifles to West Bank Settlers but nobody really wants to be there. > Israel explicitly exited Gaza because it didn't want any responsibility for it. That is not how that works. As an occupying force they are obligated to protect the population they are occupying, not commit genocide on them. No amount of kicking up sand changes that very basic fact. It doesn't matter…

> As an occupying force they are obligated to protect the population they are occupying

Israel hasn't been "an occupying force" in Gaza for 18 years. All those years Hamas explicitly renounced responsibility of doing anything for Gazans, as a normal government should - their functionaries, like Musa Abu Marzouk, openly said they are not going to do anything for the population, that's UN's business. Their business is murdering Jews and using the population as shields, and they should be thankful for that. With this approach there's no wonder all the money went to Hamas' pockets and building the tunnels, that the schools, mosques and hospital were converted to military installations and the population is living in squalor. And the fault for that lies with Hamas - their insane fanatical hate for the Jews didn't leave any space for building any normal life in Gaza. And people on the West that keep enabling them and keep shifting the blame to Israel are part of the problem, because it's their money and their support allow Hamas to do what it does.

> not commit genocide on them

Hamas has genocide as their explicit goal, and they confirmed it many times, and they tried to do it just recently and succeeded in murdering over 1300 people in Israel. They literally murdered, raped and kidnapped everybody they encountered. The goal of Israel never was to commit any genocide (no wonder the population of Gaza tripled under Israel control) - it was to leave in peace and have the Arabs to rule themselves, peacefully. Unfortunately, with Hamas it proved to be impossible. There's only one side there that is hell-bent on committing genocide - and that's Hamas. And they are not hiding it in the least, either - but people like you keep employing astonishing amount of mental gymnastics to hide it from yourselves.

> It doesn't matter if they actually want what they are doing, they are guilty either way.

What Israel is doing is dismantling the Hamas regime. Nothing else. They allowed it to exist for 18 years, so it will take a lot of time and a lot of blood, unfortunately, because Hamas is not going to go willingly, and they are actively using the population of Gaza as human shields, while robbing them (quoting Musa Abu Marzouk again: "The aid that comes to Gaza must be distributed to the resistance fighters, and what remains is done - distribute it to the people. The attempt of some citizens to seize aid, as happened today in Rafah, will be fought with all force" - and by "force" he means murdering anyone who doesn't want to starve for his glory). But of course, the useful idiots on the West will drone about how Israel is guilty in that anyway. Nothing will change them.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#854

Post by smsm42 »

johnnyworker wrote: post #827
smsm42 wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not fair if we ban things in one direction and not the other If Hamas would show around the maps, and Netanyahu would show around the maps - I'd say, no problem, let them both have their maps. That's not what Hamas is doing. Hamas has just murdered over 1300 people in Israel, after a long string of lesser murders over 18 years, and after shooting rockets into Israel day to day for all those years. And they pla…

Right, the defense minister is handing out assault rifles to West Bank Settlers but nobody really wants to be there. > Israel explicitly exited Gaza because it didn't want any responsibility for it. That is not how that works. As an occupying force they are obligated to protect the population they are occupying, not commit genocide on them. No amount of kicking up sand changes that very basic fact. It doesn't matter…

> defense minister is handing out assault rifles to West Bank Settlers but nobody really wants to be there.

The right to self defense is one of the basic human rights. "Human" here includes Jews, to the surprise of many. Israeli government committed a grave mistake of disarming the population in dangerous areas, thinking people do not need to defend themselves, since it's the job of the government. That cost hundreds of lives - lives of the people that could defend themselves, but were disarmed by their own government. Looks like finally the government realizes the gravity of their mistake. Good, at least they are capable of learning.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#855

Post by anone9462 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #679
mgraczyk wrote: post #336

Interestingly if you read the actual report from HRW, it sounds like most of the material they are referring too was legitimately taken down because it supported violence, according to Meta's policies. For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many, so it was taken down. In other cases the content praised attacks by Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US go…

The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" is that in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0] Greater Israel, extending from the river to the sea, with the Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now. 0. This is a typical map. The only indication that there is any Palest…

> Greater Israel, extending from the river to the sea, with the Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" in a nutshell

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#856

Post by Arctic_fly »

reissbaker wrote: post #596
selcuka wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And please refrain from personal attacks. You are right. I had already edited my post before you posted your response. > I referenced the three Palestinian flags, not the heart emojis > members of Hamas can be deceased too. Maybe the girl is also fully-clothed These sound highly nitpicky and like hypotheses that are hard to justify (a Hamas terrorist raping and killing a woman, then getting killed himself and taken…

IDK — I just find it hard to believe that Instagram is intentionally censoring pro-Palestine posts that do not otherwise violate their policies, and the accusation is coming from an actor that is fairly biased and isn't releasing their underlying data. No doubt sometimes things get flagged incorrectly, e.g. the heart emojis — I didn't dispute those ones. But having personally seen the abuse of random Jewish accounts…

If HRW has lost all credibility, then giving Meta the benefit of the doubt and ignoring this report makes sense. However, if you think there’s a chance that HRW might be telling the truth, then it’s worth examining your existing assumptions on how Meta decides what content to allow on its platform.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#857

Post by Arctic_fly »

bjourne wrote: post #787
reissbaker wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think without actual access to the material it's pretty hard to say. For example, the report highlights that someone commented with nothing but a series of Palestinian flags to someone's post, and their comment was flagged and removed. However, they don't share what the original post was; responding with a series of Palestinian flags to an Israeli hostage relative's post about their kidnapped sibling, for example,…

Regarding nudity, here is a tweet from Palestinian journalist MoTaz showing how photos of wounded Palestinians are incorrectly labelled as nudity: https://twitter.com/VyprCEO/status/1739180449295913096

Thanks for the source.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#858

Post by Arctic_fly »

reissbaker wrote: post #552
bjourne wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NGO Monitor is itself not a credible source. See http://policyworkinggroup.org.il/report_en.pdf

Okay, here's the BDS movement itself quoting Omar Shakir (the director of HRW's Israel/Palestine division) speaking at a SPER meeting where he promotes BDS: https://bdsmovement.net/news/divestment-debate-continues

Thanks for the source. Shakir’s perspective makes sense. Stanford shouldn’t be supporting Israel’s strikes on Palestinian civilians.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#859

Post by Arctic_fly »

ethanbond wrote: post #623
bsaul wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point, however in this case i think it's important to pinpoint the hypocrisy of some people. You can't blame israel for oct 7, ask them to stop their ongoing operations in gaza, not call for the release of hostages, not say a word about the women raped by hamas and gaza civilians, AND pretend to "just want to spare the civilians population". Those people are in practice siding for the hamas, even if…

At the dialogue level, I don’t think it’s practical to require people to give a full accounting of every related topic while speaking on a subject. There are infinite facts that are related to any one fact. Anyone can win any argument by including one more related fact and saying “well without stating your opinion on this I can discard your opinion on that .” We’ll all get nowhere. At the actual substance level, I al…

This argument is logical and I’m glad you laid it out. Stating obvious truths is a good strategy for revealing willfully ignorant posters.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#860

Post by Arctic_fly »

bsaul wrote: post #823
ethanbond wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. These protestors want a single, specific priority for the protest they organized From several comments up. Seems like a sufficiently plausible explanation not to jump to as cynical and self-serving an explanation as “they think Israeli women deserve to be raped.” And I’d also not be surprised to see them kick out men’s rights activists doing the same thing. It would be excessively cynical and self-serving to jum…

that would explain the kicking out of the protest. It doesn't explain why no proeminent feminist organization marched for those israeli women that got raped. It's not about them being pro-rape, it's about them hating israelis more than they like women in general (which is a pretty high level of hate if you're a feminist). It's pure hate and i'm not sorry you're failing to see it for what it is. "Trying to find the be…

Perhaps the feminists in question believe that their voices are more likely to lead to a change in the stance of the US and the behavior of Israel than a change in the past behavior of Hamas. What Hamas _did_ was wrong. What Israel is _doing_ is wrong, and it’s probably only going to stop in the face of real external pressure from democracies, which have historically shown an interest in protests. I can’t speak for these feminists. But you certainly can’t either.
Post reply on HN