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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#851

Post by fathyb »

l3mure wrote: post #469

> The bombing of power targets, according to intelligence sources who had first-hand experience with its application in Gaza in the past, is mainly intended to harm Palestinian civil society: to “create a shock” that, among other things, will reverberate powerfully and “lead civilians to put pressure on Hamas,” as one source put it. > Several of the sources, who spoke to +972 and Local Call on the condition of anonym…

> a system called “Habsora” (“The Gospel”), which is largely built on artificial intelligence and can “generate” targets almost automatically

Do we have any example of popular open-source software with a license that restricts military usage?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#852

Post by ido »

ramijames wrote: post #708
ido wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

As another Israeli on the left: why are you still there? Why is your family? I'm genuinely curious.

Since 2005 I've only lived in Israel for about 1 year. I currently live in Berlin.

For my family, the downsides of immigration are too great vs the downsides of upper-middle class living in metropolitan Tel Aviv. Israel is the only place where their mother tongue is the dominant local language, where their culture is the dominant local culture, where they have their friends and family and professional networks. Where they're not foreign.

Immigration is a pain in the ass and I'm not surprised most people don't do it.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#853

Post by rightbyte »

nahumfarchi wrote: post #642
rightbyte wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, an honest question, what would you do? How would you respond in this situation? The situation is by design. I am not going to pretend I don't think Netanyahu wanted this.

Based on what? He's a cynical real politik kind of guy, but I doubt this is how he hoped this would play out. At the end of the day, I believe that his legacy is extremely important to him, and he probably did not want to be remembered as the one in power during one of the worse massacres against Jews since the holocaust. Not to mention that it's highly likely he'll be voted out during the next elections (TBD...)

Based on his policies and character. But, obviously, I don't know for sure.

We need to wait 10 - 30 years til people involved starts to write memoirs.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#854

Post by ido »

nailer wrote: post #499
ido wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

[flagged]

We didn't have the UN to organize international agreements and compromises before 1945. I don't think there's any other realistic chance for peace, like the Israelis the Palestinians are too stubborn to simply give up and surrender.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#856

Post by helge9210 »

nradov wrote: post #446
ido wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

Israelis can potentially vote out Netanyahu in the next election. But how exactly would you propose to remove Hamas from power without a lot of civilian deaths? Hamas leadership prefers the current state of affairs because it has made them wealthy by taxing the populace and embezzling foreign aid. They have no incentive to agree to a peace deal or allow new multiparty elections. There doesn't appear to be any realist…

> But how exactly would you propose to remove Hamas from power without a lot of civilian deaths?

Did you consider that massive civilian death could play into Hamas' hand? One of the insurgency techniques, where the action causes overreaction to amplify support ("action-reaction-revolution").

What happens in Palestine (a territory of the state of Israel plus the territories under the occupation) is called insurgency. To end the insurgency you can either withdraw, exterminate the insurgent population and/or convince the population to not support the insurgent.

Insurgency is always a fight for the legitimacy. The problem with this conflict is the fight for legitimacy happens not only between Israel and Palestinian Arabs, but also within these parties. Israel has official stance on supporting two state solution and un-official de-facto single state goal. Palestinians have Hamas, PLO, Islamic Jihad etc.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#857

Post by rayiner »

dang wrote: post #823
rayiner wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it the snark in the first sentence?

Yes, that plus the overgeneralization in "The Arabs believe" and the overtones of religious flamewar in "affront to Islam".

“The Arabs” are a group of societies that have a readily ascertainable position on Israel and to whom the Holy Land belongs. Whether individual members of those societies might dissent from that view is neither here nor there. Individuals are irrelevant to what’s happening in Israel and Palestine.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#859

Post by sa501428 »

boppo1 wrote: post #631
nradov wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israelis can potentially vote out Netanyahu in the next election. But how exactly would you propose to remove Hamas from power without a lot of civilian deaths? Hamas leadership prefers the current state of affairs because it has made them wealthy by taxing the populace and embezzling foreign aid. They have no incentive to agree to a peace deal or allow new multiparty elections. There doesn't appear to be any realist…

Is there any way Israel could undermine Hamas with prosperity? Make the lives of palestinians better, give back settlements, etc? Get average palestinians to think "wtf who are these terrorist asshats, Israel is a good neighbor."

Before the Sharon/Netanyahu/extremist takeover, Israel was serious about peace. But in the last two decades, Netanyahu has seen Hamas as an asset to undermine the PA, block moderates, and eliminate the 2 state option [1,2].

Israel has killed Hamas leaders who wanted to work towards peace [3]: >> After Israel assassinated Jabari, Reuven Pedatzur, a military analyst for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, reported: >> Our decision makers, including the defense minister and perhaps also Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, knew about Jabari’s role in advancing a permanent cease-fire agreement. … Thus the decision to kill Jabari shows that our decision makers decided a cease-fire would be undesirable for Israel at this time, and that attacking Hamas would be preferable.

An Israeli government that was actually interested in peace could halt and reverse the settlements in the West Bank, end the apartheid (e.g. military vs civilian courts for Palestinians, different class of citizenships, travel restrictions, prevention from visting Jerusalem's holy sites, etc.), the blockade of Gaza, etc. Treating Palestinians as humans (and not propping up Hamas) would likely go a long way towards undermining Hamas. Most Palestinians already didn't like Hamas - 70% wanted the PA in July 2023 according to the Washington Institute.

[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... [2] https://theintercept.com/2023/10/14/hamas-israel-palestinian... [3] https://theintercept.com/2023/11/17/hillary-clinton-hamas-is...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#860

Post by scotty79 »

dang wrote: post #2

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don'…

Since I don't know how to contact you directly ... My comments got rate limited bacause of two or three dumb comments I made over the span of a decade mostly on religious topics. Does the rate limiting get lifted after some time automatically or is this punishment forever?

I tried asking people here but they didn't come up with an answer except to try to ask you.

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