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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#851

Post by scheeseman486 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #799
brookst wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree that only 100% novel uses are meaningful, and I disagree even more that “phone calls anywhere” or “web anywhere” are meaningful — nobody care about phone calls or the web. They care about what those enable : talking to people or doing research or shopping or whatever. But, sure, fundamentally different: being able to surround yourself with any environment you want. Being able to navigate that envi…

That's the catch though: existing, screen-based solutions let your surround yourself with any environment you want. ("Some percent worse") What's fundamentally different about AR/VR is that it lets you do that... while being anywhere. But! The cost of doing it (putting on the goggles) is a direct and serious degradation of your physical experience of wherever you physically are. So we have a device that's key value p…

Do photons have a soul? On the surface level I kind of get the argument that headsets with camera passthrough are "artificial". The light that you see isn't the light that you're supposed to see, it's been captured by a photosensor, processed into data, projected and output on a display. Scary music cue, what a total dystopia. But if it gets to the point where you can't actually tell, does it matter?

Maybe it does to you, maybe a lot of people, but calling it degradation is still a subjective call.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#852

Post by hbn »

d--b wrote: post #546

[flagged]

I don't think Meta's issue with proper VR takeoff is because people weren't willing to try a VR headset. People did try and buy headsets, and most people thought it was cool but after a couple weeks it's a novelty that's not worth the buy-in of putting on a headset every time you want to use it. You can make a VR headset as luxury as you want, but if it doesn't provide enough value to make it worth strapping a thing to your face, people won't want to use it.

For a VR headset to actually succeed, it needs to be a thing where when you're using a traditional non-VR computer, you wish you were using the headset because it enabled you to do so much more.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#853

Post by mrguyorama »

pr0zac wrote: post #822
brookst wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree that only 100% novel uses are meaningful, and I disagree even more that “phone calls anywhere” or “web anywhere” are meaningful — nobody care about phone calls or the web. They care about what those enable : talking to people or doing research or shopping or whatever. But, sure, fundamentally different: being able to surround yourself with any environment you want. Being able to navigate that envi…

> But, sure, fundamentally different: being able to surround yourself with any environment you want. Being able to navigate that environment with physical movement. Seeing a movie that exists in a sphere around you. I agree there are some people that want it (I am one of those people, Beatsaber changed my life). The issue is the number of those people isn’t that large yet. I know this because pretty much all of my fr…

It's the same fundamental reason that Forza and Grand Turismo is more popular than VR iRacing: For the vast majority of people, the goal is FUN, not authenticity or """immersion"""/fidelity and accuracy of simulation. A game that is "simulatorish" and easy to use with a controller, and has lots of average cars that normal people can connect with.

VR has proven itself pretty much only in VR racing and VR flying, where it provides an impossible to compete with improvement in experience, but at a huge cost and COMMITMENT. It takes effort to put on a headset, set aside some space, and commit to being "away from reality" for a bit

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#854

Post by mrguyorama »

adverbly wrote: post #828
pr0zac wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on this, it seems like the majority of people I know actually prefer consuming media on small screens, especially if I include people under 20 in that assessment. On top of that so far VR only offers a bigger screen and can’t actually produce high fidelity images. My 4K TV has more pixels and produces a clearer picture with more detail and resolution. Only offering bigger doesn’t feel like a good selling po…

> Beatsaber That's what I'm talking about - this is a clear use case. Another example I can think of would be remote surgery. You're exactly right though - the big problem is that it hasn't found the killer app yet. Something will probably materialize eventually, but it's not clear yet.

But Beat Saber is not fundamentally different from DDR.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#855

Post by johnnykree »

homarp wrote: post #307
johnnykree wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a middle school teacher in Europe. None of my students use Facebook. They even don't use Whatsapp that much anymore. FB has a big problem.

but they are using instagram no?

The girls, the skaters and bikers. The others just use snapchat most of the time. One of my students was complaining about battery life on his new iPhone. I told him that snapchat just uses a lot of battery because all of the shenanigans. He didnt believe me till I showed him the battery function of the phone where you can see what app uses how much percentage. :)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#856

Post by brandall10 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #493
brandall10 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is the iPad is a simplified platform as a replacement for those w/ simplified needs - it does work for some in this capacity, but not as much as Apple original sold it as. For most it's a supplementary device for content consumption. This is expansive, a 'next step', designed to replace everything. Time will tell and I'm similarly cautious.

But they have been clear in the presentations that this is the same. It's running a handful of apps, it's not some full laptop-like experience. I would bet it's anyway using most of its computing power just to draw on the displays and to do realtime image recognition to blend the 3D windows into the image of your own room. You'd need far more computing power to actually get a full laptop experience in addition to all…

Sure, it will have that locked in experience to start and lack the computing power to compete with a traditional machine. It doesn't mean it has to remain that way. They've tried to push the iPadOS further in that direction for years.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#857

Post by pohl »

ethbr0 wrote: post #844
pohl wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wouldn’t even need to go outside to want it. This could be the ultimate standing desk — one that you can bring with you to the kitchen or to the basket of laundry.

Why would you want to bring your desk into the kitchen or to the basket of laundry? Not being flippant -- I really think that's the big question. Current AR/VR (Vision Pro included) lets us do desk things at not-desk places, but why would I want to do that?

Only you can say why you would, so I can't help you there.

But, for me, for example: to GSD around the house while one needs to be in a Zoom, so that menial chores aren't waiting for me when I'm off work. Even Airpods let me do that somewhat now, but at the expense of missing slides or what's being shared on someone's desktop.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#858

Post by johnnykree »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #541
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they use instead of Whatsapp?

Snapchat. All teens are communicating on Snapchat. And sometimes Instagram which is also owned by FB.

yup. Instagram is more used by the sports guys to show of their stunts... I have a kid who jumps into public water fountains with his bike. And girls with beauty stuff which may be a cliche but as a language teacher we often talk about their weekends and their hobbies...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#859

Post by mrguyorama »

moonchrome wrote: post #631
marcus_holmes wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest contrast is ChatGPT vs VR right now. OpenAI is up to over a billion of users and hundreds of millions of subscribers in There is no demand for VR outside gaming. Efforts to try and create that demand are failing.

> There is no demand for VR outside gaming If I could replace my monitor with a portable device that would grant me huge virtual desktop space I would pay 3500$ Right now I'm waiting to see the feedback and for the early adopter issues to get ironed out. But I'd say this demand is far greater than gaming. Being able to work from any rental where I can plop a keyboard and laptop without having to deal with bad desk he…

>If I could replace my monitor with a portable device that would grant me huge virtual desktop space I would pay 3500$

People keep parroting this line, but have you ever actually tried this? There's way more to discomfort in VR than just pixel density.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#860

Post by mrguyorama »

brookst wrote: post #779
dr_dshiv wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And peak VR gaming circa 2023 seems to be Gorilla Tag and Beat Saber. Not saying those are bad games, but…

Sure, to the extent peak non-VR gaming is candy crush. Most gaming will be casual, in VR just like non-VR. But there are much better and deeper games in both cases.

Alright lets put it this way: For fiveish years now, there have been basically copies of CS:GO and CoD in VR, games that get up to millions of daily users, and the VR versions of those games get like, hundreds of players, if that.

VR just isn't that wanted by average people. "Immersion" just isn't a magic panacea that older execs seem to think it is, and being in a "virtual world" while you play most games don't make them better games! Oddly enough, most people don't play videogames to emulate real activities, but rather to play games, with their own made up rules and concepts. FIFA on the Xbox is nothing like actual soccer, but the players prefer it like that, and a FIFA that requires you to kick the ball with your real foot and costs hundreds of dollars is NOT better as a game, or more fun to most people, than "flat" FIFA.

We literally already went over this with the Wii; shoehorning in "realism" into games that don't benefit from it just makes shitty games.

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