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Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

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Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#851

Post by [deleted] »

mise_en_place wrote: post #782
screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

The Constitution is a negative rights document, meaning that it enumerates all the actions that the federal government cannot do to you. The Supreme Court should not be in the business of legislating, as you mention it should be the Congress that legislates. The Constitution is clear on what the judiciary is meant to do, review if an existing law or executive action is in violation of the Constitution. Anything else…

[deleted]

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#852

Post by mikkergp »

cato_the_elder wrote: post #273
lawn wrote: post #52

There's this belief that society always moves in a "forward/upward" directory, where we become more advanced, more enlightened and more moral. But this is not the case and sometimes we regress.

> There's this belief that society always moves in a "forward/upward" directory That's the central fallacy of Whig historiography [1]. It is in part facilitated by the fact that recent history is often written by the victors. MLK repeated the same fallacy: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." Is that the same arc that included two world wars? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_…

Just for some context, I once heard commentary about MLK that suggested that that specific statement was made in more of a spiritual tradition than a practical or historical tradition.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#853

Post by tikiman163 »

screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

The Supreme Court Justice who wrote the court's opinion on this issue just publicly stated he believes the Supreme Court should reconsider all of its prior procedural decisions, including Gay Mairage, legalized gay relationships, contraception and privacy in sexual or relationship matters.

You don't get to claim you're potentially naive, you're outright ignoring what they've publicly declared they intend to do. This isn't a group of well reasoned individuals removing power from the court, they're just doing whatever they hell they want to make the laws reflect their own religious beliefs.

Fuck this country, the only thing we're the best at is pretending we're the best.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#854

Post by johnny313 »

I found this discussion of unenumerated rights [0] to be helpful in explaining how a right to privacy was derived from the US constitution, and how difficult it is to establish a "test" for unenumerated rights.

[The Griswold case] says the penumbras around the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendment create a right to privacy. So what they're getting at — a penumbra is just a shadow, right? — is that these textual provisions cast these shadows. And those shadows, which all contain this notion of privacy overlap with each other such that they coalesce into a right in its own right, so that the right to privacy under which the right to contraception is protected is derived from the shadows of actual textual provisions.

Very disconcerting that the rights to contraception, same sex marriage, and consensual adult sexual relationships are up for debate because they are not explicitly enumerated in the constitution.

[0] https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/05/31/the-fragility-of-une...

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#855

Post by lodi »

anigbrowl wrote: post #593
screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

The jaded side of me says: vote in more moderates that are willing to strike compromises Suppose I come along and assault you, you defend yourself, and then someone comes along and tells you that you are as much to blame as the person who assaulted you. Are they accurate, or just squeamish? Moderates generally lack any firm convictions or anchoring principles beyond maintaining equanimity, and so contribute mightily…

I like to differentiate between "moderate" and "centrist". A moderate is, by my definition, someone who has firm convictions and anchoring principles and those just happen today to plant them in the center of the political spectrum. If the Overton window shifts, today's moderate will become tomorrow's conservative or liberal.

By contrast a centrist always takes the middling, compromising position at the middle of that Overton window. It's centrists that contribute to ethical drift.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#856

Post by pseingatl »

Is anyone bothered by the court's dissembling after the leak? "It's not final." True, but misleading. "No decision has been made yet." True, but misleading. The court voted to overturn Roe. The Chief Justice assigned Alito to write the brief. That was before the leak. At the time the leak was made, the court had already decided the case and lied about it.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#857

Post by Splendor »

karl11 wrote: post #275

The thing about abortion that most people seem not to understand is that the debate is fundamentally about answering "when does human life start?". One side believes it starts at conception, which equates any abortion with murder. The other side believes it starts at some point after that, which makes abortion up to that point a women's health / rights issue. Irreconcilable, but also toxic when the two sides never ta…

Nope. You completely misunderstand the pro-choice argument. You can believe life begins at conception and still believe it's wrong to force a woman to carry a fetus to term.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#858

Post by [deleted] »

kdtsh wrote: post #426
screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

> I'll be the begrudging devils advocate There are plenty of devils out there, they can advocate for themselves. This ruling can be as technically correct as anyone likes, but it is disastrous in every conceivable way. All this ultimately demonstrates is how feeble rights - real, natural rights - are under the American conception of federal constitutional rights. Edit: there are a lot of people who are clearly very c…

[deleted]

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#859

Post by manuelabeledo »

ecommerceguy wrote: post #532
screye wrote: post #330

I'll be the begrudging devils advocate for a decision that is sure to have devastating consequences for poor women in red states. It is good for unelected bodies like the Supreme Court to allow such dividing issues be figured out democratically. The US house has bled power to the other 3 institutions and of them, the judiciary is the least democratic. Ofc, my support for this change assumes that this Supreme Court wi…

>>Now, the rural republican votes counting for more in the senate is a huge issue and threat to democracy that the US needs to figure out if it ever wants to represent the views of the people The United States is a Republic not a democracy.

> The United States is a Republic not a democracy.

These are not mutually exclusive. The US is a republic and a democracy.

Re: Supreme Court Overturns Roe vs. Wade

#860

Post by i5Aj7PXGjUPy »

noelsusman wrote: post #777
InTheArena wrote: post #188

Separate abortion from Roe v. Wade. The big challenge has been that Roe v. Wade was horribly decided. Even RBG thought so. Roe v wade gave the Supreme Court the right to make law without reference to any text in the constitution. Casey tried to change the justification but it still was a disaster. Sadly it is far from the only time the Supreme Court has made things up out of whole cloth that has had massive societal…

RBG had her criticisms of Roe, but a quick reading of her critiques would clearly show she would be with the dissent today, not the majority. Reproductive rights are essential to women's liberty and equality, which is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. The unborn child has a competing right to life that is also guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. Roe/Casey balanced these competing interests well, and today's decision bl…

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