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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#851

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tashoecraft wrote: post #841
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad you had a good experience, but IMO the way Audible works is a mess of dark patterns to begin with. If you stop paying for one month you loose all your credits, so when I’m not reading as much I end up in a bind where I can’t cancel, but if I don’t cancel I get deeper in a hole. You can pause a subscription, but only once every couple years and only for 90 days, and the option is hidden.

I will say that maybe they’ve updated things, because I went to cancel and it said “you have x amount of credits, would you like to pause for y time in order to keep them”. In no way was it hidden. I hate the credit system and the fact that they go away, but pausing was encouraged

Right, it doesn't show the option until they basically think you're about to cancel anyway.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#852

Post by amyjess »

hwers wrote: post #251
xg15 wrote: post #167

> including an option that’s “at least as easy” as the one to subscribe Weirdly enough this sounds like a loophole. I can already see some companies trying to bullshit their way through an investigation: "Oh sure, we don't provide online cancellation, because our way to cancel is even easier than online:" * presents a way to cancel that is in practice more difficult than online *. I think either mandating that cancel…

> mandating that cancelling must be possible using the same workflow as subscription I'd rather not put into the law that strict a requirement on our UI design.

Tough. We live in a society, and that means we all have to follow rules that protect the less-well-off members of society.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#853

Post by tickerticker »

And a roar goes up from the crowd..... can't remember when I have felt such delight about a government announcement.

Trying to close accounts for my just-deceased brother took HOURS over several days. The retention person at Verizon even said there could be many reasons not to cancel a dead person's account.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#854

Post by throwawaygh »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #799
throwawaygh wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some car companies require you to sign you up for a "free" SiriusXM subscription with a new car purchase, which you then have to go through the effort to cancel. I told the dealership I'd never buy a car from their brand again because of this.

How can they require it? Your default answer is "do you want to lose the sale because of this?" If they do, well there are lots of other dealerships.

Unfortunately, due to the auto shortage, the power dynamic between dealerships and buyers is inverted atm.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#856

Post by philistine »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #844
bertil wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth: I’ve been considering trying out Masterclass because their content seem great, but worried that something will come up and I’ll be locked into a yearly contract or something, so I never tried. Your comment made me confident that I should.

I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it. There's content that is just a treat and fun to watch, but the idea of it being a "class" is rather disingenuous. Like, are you really going to become a composer after watching 6 hours of content? Or a rock climber? But the stuff that is set up where you can have a chance at succeeding by practicing what you are seeing really does work. I was gifted a subsc…

If Masterclass were scummy with their cancellation policy, OP would not be able to see for themselves. A frictionless policy allows people to experiment with services. My wife and I subscribe to one streaming service at a time because of that.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#857

Post by [deleted] »

hirsin wrote: post #790
idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

Speaking to this myself - I was blown away by Masterclass letting me do this, after I forgot it would renew. I responded to their "hey you've been charged" email with something like "I forgot about this and didn't mean to renew". In perhaps ten minutes I had a cancelation notice and refund. Way more likely to get their stuff again. Bonus points for not sending the bill from some faceless "no reply" address.

[deleted]

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#858

Post by mcbutterbunz »

I don't see why there isn't a rule that requires a method of unsubscription using the same method by which you subscribed (but not only by the same method).

If you can subscribe by their website, you should be able to unsubscribe by their website. Same for phone, in-app, or in person.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#859

Post by conductr »

kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Newspapers are awful. I had one thrown in my yard DAILY, that the previous homeowner had signed up for. I couldn't figure out what the publication even was, or how to contact them. I ended up flagging down the delivery guy (4am), he doesn't know who the publisher is and so I just tell him to stop throwing in my yard (put in trash for all I care). It worked for a while, but probably the turnover happened and the next delivery guy started throwing in my yard again. So I wake up, flag him down, and ask for his bosses info. Call them, they're confrontational about it so I basically went on to say I feel they are littering on my property and I will report them to police if it keeps happening (yep, Karen move). That led to them telling me who the publisher was, they had a corporate holding company website, with an image of text instructing how to cancel (not SEO friendly). I had to call. After calling, I had to write a letter to some PO Box. It was insane.

Meanwhile, I signed up for a magazine 20 years ago for $8/year and still get it monthly as well. I haven't paid since, they send me an annual reminder pay which I ignore. I suppose they like including me in their readership numbers to sell print ads, so they keep sending me magazines. Luckily, I enjoy the magazine. Monthly in my mailbox (not wet out in my yard). I would not want to even think about trying to stop the deliveries, they follow me wherever I live.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#860

Post by mynameisvlad »

_2d30 wrote: post #797
mynameisvlad wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Processing napkin cancellation requests requires just about as much work as any other form of "manual" request -- whether that's over email, phone, etc. There is nothing special about processing a "napkin cancellation" or whatever other form, the process is the same: find the account, do whatever verification needs to be done, and cancel it on the backend. In the end, you still have to have a manual cancellation pipe…

> Processing napkin cancellation requests requires just about as much work as any other form of "manual" request -- whether that's over email, phone, etc. The costs of running phone support are absurd. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. Even just spend like 5 seconds considering how you’re going to go through the process you laid out when someone hands you a napkin they wrote on LOL

So, what you’re saying is that you don’t actually want to provide your customers support because it costs too much?

Where’s that straw man now?

You could’ve saved both of us a lot of time by just stating it upfront.

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