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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#851

Post by nec4b »

Jochim wrote: post #839
nmfisher wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were cut off from social media, payment processors, web hosts and mail providers, would you practically be able to launch a political campaign?

If society has decided that your political campaign is so toxic that no one wants to do business with you, should private entities be forced to deal with you if you are not a protected class? Parler being booted is society's reaction to a movement that has been getting more extreme for the last 5 years. I'll note the irony that many of the people complaining about companies refusing to deal with Parler are the same p…

Society hasn't decided anything unless you think a self selected group of people now represents the whole society. The Democratic party and its business lackeys decided to remove political in business opposition/competition with impunity and the Republican party being mostly indifferent about it.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#852

Post by CathedralBorrow »

dnissley wrote: post #530
doktrin wrote: post #504

If I had a dime for every time I read some pearl clutching comment about the big brother slippery slope on HN, I could have retired by now. In all these years, the only actual existential danger to society to materialize are precisely the entities that are now being deplatformed. Excuse me if I don't take all this hand wringing on behalf of unstable insurrectionists seriously.

When half the country is so resentful of the other half that it starts to act out, is escalating that situation the best option? Or perhaps you let them vent for a bit (mostly harmlessly, but not entirely) and then try to engage with them and bring them back to reality?

How do you engage with a mob that chants demands for executing democratically elected leaders while storming the capitol?

Listen to their demands and try to find a compromise?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#853

Post by Noos »

throwawaysea wrote: post #777
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

It is incredible that people on HN can be against Visa/Mastercard banning payments to Wikileaks or Pornhub, against PayPal making arbitrary decisions about their customers, but somehow in support of Stripe banning Trump. All of these companies are providing utility services, and they should all be regulated as if they were public agencies. They should have to uphold the freedom of speech and other principles enshrine…

it's not incredible. It's pretty much an open double standard at this point, because political leftism is seen as the only true ideology a rational person can have. The rhetoric about conservatism is increasingly casting conservatives as vulnerable to irrational forces like fake news or algorithims that can override their will and make them believe patently absurd things.

If you are conservative or lean to it, its incredibly disheartening. You have to consistently justify to these people you aren't brainwashed, because their default idea is that you are. Sort of the same way about serious religious belief if you have one; people default assume you are nuts and at best you can work your way up to "he's nuts but he is our nut."

It's scary to me, and to be honest my political views are starting to move towards "limit the power other people can affect you as much as possible" because its now evident how people will happily deplatform any unpopular person beyond the real justification. I can buy removing Trump's speech due to incitement, but it keeps going and going-like we literally see fox news next, and what then?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#854

Post by amanaplanacanal »

mehrdadn wrote: post #217
neltnerb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, payment processors often stop working with criminals, or even non-criminals that are just in "unseemly" industries. PayPal arbitrarily freezes people's accounts for even possibly being scams, why not obvious billion dollar ones? I have never thought they were neutral when it came to actual crimes. That's so much liability, why would anyone expect them to take it on given how risk averse they are?

> PayPal arbitrarily freezes people's accounts PayPal kept doing that so much that regulators (FTC? I forget) finally made them stop holding pseudo-cash accounts for people until/unless people specifically requested it. Laws take time to catch up. > why not obvious billion dollar ones? why would anyone expect them to take it on given how risk averse they are? Again: I'm not opining on what they should or shouldn't be…

I would think that because of “know your customer” and other regulations banks and payment processors have to be able to decline business. They can’t possibly be utilities unless we overturn all the anti money laundering regulations. Am I missing something here?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#855

Post by m94710 »

Tokkemon wrote: post #242
cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

Stop downplaying a literally terrorist attack on the nation's Capitol.

You realize the weeks-long “peaceful” BLM/Antifa protests caused orders of magnitude more damage in multiple cities, rather than this one protest in one building that happened for one day?

Also there’s phone recordings of several people at the capitol incident who were actually antifa people disguised as trump supporters. I’d share a link to some tweets to show you.... but guess what? They’ve been banned

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#856

Post by syshum »

flamble wrote: post #635
adventured wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's no coincidence that Russian dissident Alexei Navalny spoke out against big tech conspiring together to censor Trump. He sees exactly what they're doing and knows where it leads. All big tech has to do now is tighten the screws further, and they can use their new standard to wipe out any challenger from the right half of the political spectrum before they ever gain traction (whether in media, with payment pro…

Yes, the "left" represented by the Democratic party /s. Every single thing you've listed is controlled by capital, not by the left. Tech, Hollywood/Media, Social Media, News, and payment processing. Academia is a very partial exception (google "Koch brothers university funding"). Do you think that any of the organizations that constitute these groups are run by social activists? These are overwhelmingly multinational…

>>Do you think that any of the organizations that constitute these groups are run by social activists?

it is clear that they are, while they may not be owned by social activists the day to day operations are certainly controlled by social activists

Take the recent effort of google employees to form a union, one not to negotiate pay or working conditions but rather to demand a litany of things around social activism including the power to control the policys and projects of the company

Then there are publishers, tech companies, and universities that continually have their employees protest if their employer engages with anyone that they deem to have "wrong think" see the Reaction at spotify when they brought on Joe Rogan, or reactions to Ben Shapiro speaking at any Campus, or the reaction at Penguin to the publishing of certian books...

To deny these companies are run by social activists is to deny reality itself

>"Left" media is a tiny, powerless fraction of the media.

100% incorrect, the Left enjoys a majorty position in Fiction Media (movies, TV Shows etc), and you can see a clear political shift in narrative of TV Shows.

i like to binge watch shows, even long running shows. So over the course of a month or more I may a long running series back to back, several of them that ran in the early 00's till after Trumps election you can see a clear political messaging shift in them, from an attempt to being "neutral" in their politics to a clear hard left turn.

Further Print News media is clearly Left bias as well probably 70% / 30% left to right positioning

Your lone example of Cable TV news is a weak argument, and if you talk to many conservatives you will find there is a large contingent of people that believe that since Roger Ailes passed Fox News has also taken a left turn...

I think alot of your position is based on the fact that many of these places are "not as far left" as you, or other organizations, but this does not make them "right" either.

CNN is not as far left as MSNBC, but CNN is not right either.

Barrack Obama is not as far left as AOC but that does not make Obama a Republican

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#857

Post by mard »

Jochim wrote: post #839
nmfisher wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were cut off from social media, payment processors, web hosts and mail providers, would you practically be able to launch a political campaign?

If society has decided that your political campaign is so toxic that no one wants to do business with you, should private entities be forced to deal with you if you are not a protected class? Parler being booted is society's reaction to a movement that has been getting more extreme for the last 5 years. I'll note the irony that many of the people complaining about companies refusing to deal with Parler are the same p…

There are thousands of bakeries out there, but only a handful of payment processors.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#858

Post by mehrdadn »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #854
mehrdadn wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PayPal arbitrarily freezes people's accounts PayPal kept doing that so much that regulators (FTC? I forget) finally made them stop holding pseudo-cash accounts for people until/unless people specifically requested it. Laws take time to catch up. > why not obvious billion dollar ones? why would anyone expect them to take it on given how risk averse they are? Again: I'm not opining on what they should or shouldn't be…

I would think that because of “know your customer” and other regulations banks and payment processors have to be able to decline business. They can’t possibly be utilities unless we overturn all the anti money laundering regulations. Am I missing something here?

Can a utility refuse to provide service?

Yes. In general, a utility provider may refuse to initiate service if the requesting customer cannot comply with the requirements outlined in the utility’s tariffs or rules. Utility tariffs and rules are authorized by the CPUC.

https://consumers.cpuc.ca.gov/cab_faq/

Utilities must provide service to any member of the public living within the utility’s service area who has applied for service and is willing to pay for the service and comply with the utility’s rules and regulations. The utility’s duty to serve is not absolute, however. A utility may deny service for good cause (e.g., nonpayment).

https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/older_consumers/consumer_fac...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#859

Post by Jochim »

cambalache wrote: post #849
Jochim wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If society has decided that your political campaign is so toxic that no one wants to do business with you, should private entities be forced to deal with you if you are not a protected class? Parler being booted is society's reaction to a movement that has been getting more extreme for the last 5 years. I'll note the irony that many of the people complaining about companies refusing to deal with Parler are the same p…

Who is society? The coastal rich liberal tech owners?

Doesn't seem like any other groups are interested in supporting them either or else they wouldn't have any issue paying to self host/finding a willing provider.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#860

Post by Jochim »

nec4b wrote: post #851
Jochim wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If society has decided that your political campaign is so toxic that no one wants to do business with you, should private entities be forced to deal with you if you are not a protected class? Parler being booted is society's reaction to a movement that has been getting more extreme for the last 5 years. I'll note the irony that many of the people complaining about companies refusing to deal with Parler are the same p…

Society hasn't decided anything unless you think a self selected group of people now represents the whole society. The Democratic party and its business lackeys decided to remove political in business opposition/competition with impunity and the Republican party being mostly indifferent about it.

> Republican party being mostly indifferent about it.

Well it's hard to argue against it when the people being cut out are trying to pipe-bomb your headquarters as well as the Democrats :/.

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