Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#851

Post by mistermann » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #775

mistermann wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current administration keeps blaming the previous one for drawing down on the federal PPP supply without replenishing it (dubious claim), so there was exactly zero reason for this[1] to happen. The claim is "dubious", so ( therefore ) there was exactly no reason for this to happen? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dubious - "questionable or suspect as to true nature or quality" https://www.merriam-web…

The "dubious" claim (I was imprecise and meant to credit it to the president's quote, not the "without replenishing it") was basically affirmed by your Politifact link. More importantly, the current president didn't spend the first 3 years in office replenishing the stockpile and didn't take an offer from a former mask manufacturer very early in the outbreak to increase the production rate. [1] https://www.usatoday.c…

> More importantly, the current president didn't spend the first 3 years in office replenishing the stockpile and didn't take an offer from a former mask manufacturer very early in the outbreak to increase the production rate.

Obama behaved no differently.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#852

Post by maerF0x0 » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:06 AM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #515

maerF0x0 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see the data of which is more effective. I'm currently biased towards believing that masks were highly effective and SIP orders mostly are not (because people still leave for groceries, for example) . If we create the false dichotomy of Masks vs SIP I would recommend Masks

Stay at home orders work because they minimize contact someone has with others. Sure, people might still go to the groceries or other essential tasks. Once or twice a week. But if they're otherwise obeying the order and staying at home then just by not travelling to and from the office, going on recreational walks/drives/etc, and in general being isolated with a few people is obviously going to drastically limit the…

> Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US.

It is politicized whenever there is a strong disparity of benefits and costs... It's primarily the old who benefit and primarily the young who suffer by closing down the economy

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#853

Post by humaniania » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

vondur wrote: post #780

strgcmc wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And maybe we shouldn't trust China's reported data, but Europe is almost doing miraculously well if you compare to the USA. Not going for eradication, but containment. With containment, everything else is possible (healthcare system not overloaded, economy can be opened up, schools can reopen, etc.). The US has capitulated completely, and even containment isn't really on the table nationally; on a state-by-stat…

Where in the US is the health care system overwhelmed?

Texas https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/14/texas-hospitals-coro...

Arizona https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/20...

Florida https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/10/florida-coro...

Georgia https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#854

Post by flukus » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #852

mynameisvlad wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stay at home orders work because they minimize contact someone has with others. Sure, people might still go to the groceries or other essential tasks. Once or twice a week. But if they're otherwise obeying the order and staying at home then just by not travelling to and from the office, going on recreational walks/drives/etc, and in general being isolated with a few people is obviously going to drastically limit the…

> Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US. It is politicized whenever there is a strong disparity of benefits and costs... It's primarily the old who benefit and primarily the young who suffer by closing down the economy

They exact same disparity exists elsewhere in the world but the politicization is largely an American phenomena, so it's not the disparity by itself to blame.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#855

Post by mistermann » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:23 AM UTC

greesil wrote: post #377

mistermann wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who... Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations? Or, as for turning it around, are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?

Interdimensional cable. You can't prove that I don't have it. Ask yourself this, could the current administration's response have been better given what was known at the time? If the answer is emphatically yes, then perhaps another person is better suited for the job.

> Interdimensional cable. You can't prove that I don't have it.

@not2b pointed out a number of very valid issues in the United States. No disagreement from me, these are obvious and very important problems.

But then followed it up with:

>> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who is committed to division...

"Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership" on its own could be interpreted as an abstract philosophical statement, but not when it is accompanied by "...but we chose someone..." implies a specific context (the last election), does it not?

In the last election, there were two choices: Trump and Clinton.

Trump was elected, leaving Clinton as the only other choice of a person who could have "turned this situation around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause".

Is: "are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?", requesting clarification and evidence of the claim, inappropriate in this context?

Is: "Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations?" not appropriate, considering the claim was that a different choice could "turn this situation around quickly"? Is past performance of Presidents not relevant to the epistemic soundness of a claim that something is not just possible, but quick?

I'm thinking: perhaps turning things around in a country of 300 million people of vastly different cultures and ideologies is a bit more complicated than is appreciated by some forum commentators. Just an idea.

> Ask yourself this, could the current administration's response have been better given what was known at the time? If the answer is emphatically yes, then perhaps another person is better suited for the job.

Of course, just look around at other countries. There are surely thousands of people in the Unites States that could have handled this situation better, but we are only allowed to vote for the candidates that are undemocratically offered. And let's not forget, an election isn't about on issue, like "who would handle a pandemic best?". The reality is, each voter is (or should be) considering many thousands of variables, many of which have unknown values and all sorts of messy stuff.

The notion that ~"because President is handling individual issue poorly, therefore it logically follows that Candidate was the better choice for President" is not strongly logical. The answers to questions like this (or, what the hell is even going on, at any level of significant complexity) are actually not known - it just doesn't seem like it. I happen to believe that this phenomenon may actually play a major role in the underlying cause of the problems themselves.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#856

Post by FuckButtons » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #626

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

I'm very pleased by the decision from the top in California today about keeping schools remote until things get better. The only complaint I have is how long it took to get there. Tons of people at hundreds/thousands of school districts and private schools throughout the state have spent incredible effort debating and planning and so much effort could have been saved if the decision from the top was made earlier.

I’m not, California should have got its shit together and instituted comprehensive tracking and tracing commensurate with the needs of public education restarting. By failing to build testing and tracing capacity we have wasted the time bought for us through mass unemployment. California is the 5th largest economy in the world, we could have done this alone and ignored the rest of the us, but we didn’t and that is a failure.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#857

Post by heimatau » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:31 AM UTC

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

I've felt this way from the get go.

Albeit, I'm not a single family (we have two parents) but...I'm an advocate for homeschooling. I have been for about a decade now. I've noticed a lot of different parenting styles growing up and education matters tremendously but not just book smarts, but emotional intelligence, dealing with various people, skills, and even high valued skills.

As I've lived my life and looked into multiple system, I feel the American education has failed it's students for well over 30 years. The student that succeed? The ones that knows that school is more than 9am to 2pm (or whatever depending on the age). I feel it's best taught in the home.

As the child ages and more skilled studies are required, yes they'll learn from teachers but parents can get very far with a child, if you encourage them to learn and foster their curiosity.

Finally, I'll conclude with this. I feel very grateful for this covid19 because this will now help more resources to improve the quality/efficiency of homeschooling. I look forward to using these new resources that will rise up.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#858

Post by FuckButtons » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:40 AM UTC

quicklime wrote: post #664

watwut wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Iran?

The US has higher case and death counts than Iran, both in absolute terms as well as per-capita. The US also looks to be on a worse trajectory.

Yeah, based on the self reported numbers out of Iran, which you can trust about as much as you can their state news agency on any number of topics. Let’s not forget they were simultaneously denying the virus’ prevalence while their political leaders were dropping like flies and they were digging mass graves that could be seen from space.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#859

Post by FuckButtons » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

theonething wrote: post #848

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

> we didn't follow through with the lockdown nationally to actually stomp the virus Do you think an enforced national lockdown is feasible in the US? Given the size of the country, the culture of independence, the relatively loose union of 50 states and other factors, my answer is no.

It’s bizarre to me that given the conclusion that this is the only solution people’s immediate instinct is to just say it’s not possible. Nothing’s possible if you don’t even attempt it.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#860

Post by FuckButtons » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

oramit wrote: post #753

isthispermanent wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that if Sec. Clinton were in office the red states would be doing exactly what they're doing now. It wouldn't have made a lick of difference. I should have been more explicit on that. > Contrast this with Andrew Cuomo of New York... Exactly. I think this is part of the problem on the left. The desire to do something , anything, when sometimes doing nothing, or less, is the right thing. And then if…

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you meant a complete reversal. If Hillary were president I think red states would have resisted but its hard for me to imagine they would be doing it at the same level. Maybe i'm being too Pollyanna there. I also agree that simply doing something, anything, isn't always the right approach. I'm an independent who hangs out with the left and there is a tendency to reach for the h…

Here’s the thing, you can be as ideological about this as you want but if you look around the world at what has worked, empirically, national level intervention with a large testing and tracing effort at that level is what works. The best approach is what keeps people from overwhelming hospitals, not what meets some platonic ideal of overlapping spheres of influence.