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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#851

Post by danso »

HyperTalk2 wrote: post #691
blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

What's wrong with hate, exactly? Last I checked, hate is the emotion that one experiences in response to the realization that someone else is doing horrible things to them or the people they love. This then compels one to protect themselves and those they love from the hated individuals, which is good.

That’s not the connotation of “hate” when used in the term, “hate speech”.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#852

Post by dwild »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

I believe it's alright as long as the product isn't necessary and just value-added. In the case of Cloudflare, that's pretty clear that it's just value-added.

In the case of water supply, electricity, phone, internet service, etc... it's not just value-added, you can't function without those, there's no alternative.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#853

Post by dwild »

zzzcpan wrote: post #835

So much hypocrisy. When war mongering governments like US, Russia use Cloudflare for war propaganda websites that enable their wars and killings of lots and lots of people it doesn't bother Matthew Prince. Or when websites behind Cloudflare promote and sell lethal weapons that are the actual reason behind mass shootings even being possible, still doesn't bother him. But no, a dissident free speech activist website is…

> When war mongering governments like US, Russia use Cloudflare for war propaganda websites that enable their wars and killings of lots and lots of people

Do you have a source for that?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#855

Post by awinder »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #820
awinder wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dumb pipe is DNS + ip routing. No one wants to share or sell their smart pipes (CDN, analytics, cloud platform, etc.) into a powder keg. > Imagine if real life utilities did this TV & Radio platforms have declined to provide amplification to numerous fringe ideas / platforms over the years. As a direct "knowledge/information utility" that corollary carries the most weight for me. But again, DNS is the real "utili…

Why is a CDN a "smart pipe" but DNS is not? That seems like a rather arbitrary distinction to me. Is the internet not a "knowledge/information utility"? Do CDNs not provide critical protection against DDOS attacks? How then does denying service not "prevent 8chan from delivering it's message"?

CDNs are not the only way to provide protection against DDOS, they're a packaged offering combining multiple technologies but there's nothing preventing you from running geolocated servers, on multiple providers, with ddos mitigation you buy/build yourself. Blocking at the DNS layer (through multi-party action I guess) is going to be an insurmountable hurdle. Wanting cloudflare or any other company to offer you prerolled infrastructure as a right is ludicrous. This distinction is anything but arbitrary.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#856

Post by cryptonector »

latexr wrote: post #707
cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

> No one talks about de-platforming CNN. Roger Ebert[1], Tristan Harris[2], and others argue that the way CNN (and others) covers these events incentivises further occurrences. [1]: https://boingboing.net/2012/12/15/roger-ebert-on-how-the-pre... [2]: I’m having trouble finding the video amongst the flood of news reports from the recent events.

But do they propose that CNN be deplatformed?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#857

Post by LargeWu »

not_a_cop75 wrote: post #833
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

It seems like having a known honeypot to capture conversations of would be evil doers would be much better than to further force them underground into the likes of Tor. Who is going to be able to mine conversations for advanced warnings once they are there? Also, the silencing of dissidents seems like the wrong move in general for all internet companies. The truth can tolerate being harassed, bashed and unliked. What…

8chan has been a known commodity for a long time. If it was such a valuable source of intelligence, why aren't these attacks being stopped?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#858

Post by jshowa3 »

onli wrote: post #701
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

The Internet, at least in the US and probably the world, is not a public utility. It's run by a conglomerate of private corporations that have just as much rights as an individual, at least according to US law.

Cloudflare is a CDN just like many ISP's. And ISP's have had the right to control traffic how they like for decades (within reason of course based on a stipulated contract). They do not provide journalistic services, or speech services, or editorial services. They provide infrastructure. So it's not like Facebook or Twitter which are discussion areas.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#859

Post by cryptonector »

zouhair wrote: post #653
cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

> of course, I've not looked So go look, it would not take you much (site down for now though, for obvious reasons). I did it back with the Christchurch terrorist attack and won't do it again it's so vile and that's a euphemism.

How? They're being deplatformed.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#860

Post by rtkwe »

cletus wrote: post #786
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> Imagine if real life utilities did this. You don't have to imagine it. Literally all of these things happen. Examples: - Utilities restricting or even cutting off crypto miners (eg [1]) - Your phone service has prohibited uses that will get your service disconnected (eg see Section 8, Use of the Service in [2]). - Getting water cut off is more difficult but not impossible, I imagine. Some places will cut you off fo…

The issue in [1] in a lot of cases was that the region had such cheap electricity because they were buying a defined amount of electricity from a cheap source but had a very expensive rate for going over that amount so the BTC miners were coming in and massively inflating everyone's rates but not otherwise really contributing to the region economically, unlike the Alcoa plant that originally got them that low rate a BTC miner barely employees anyone locally.
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