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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#851

Post by leetcrew »

chungleong wrote: post #383
leetcrew wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the original word choice was "prepared", which has a different meaning from "capable". if the poor kid never took calculus in high school and the rich kid already understands integration, that's probably two whole college semesters behind on a STEM track. there's no way you could say they're at the same level of preparedness for college. as for "capable", who knows?

Well, someone has to prop up the humanities. Universities are supposed to be communities of scholars. They aren't job training centers. Unless some students are persuaded to pursue less-career-oriented majors, all our universities would soon into polytechnics.

I chose the Calc I/II sequence as a concrete example that would be familiar to the large number of STEM majors on this forum. my point works just as well if you substitute "reading skills" for "calculus" and "humanities" for "STEM".

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#852

Post by mhuffman »

harryh wrote: post #301
analog31 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I doubt such a policy would withstand a FERPA challenge.

There are lots of secret scores given by colleges during their admissions process. I think you're probably wrong here.

... sure, but not a test you pay for yourself.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#853

Post by belorn »

spamizbad wrote: post #532
manfredo wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Numerous private universities (Christian schools in particular) enforce strict student code of conduct rules that severely limit the student body's freedom of expression as to way to enforce religious or secular compliance. And it doesn't hurt their reputation but instead is an integral component of the school's identity. Perhaps you're coming from a different cultural context than, but in my circles such universit…

> Some people don't even consider applicants from BYU, and other heavily religious universities because they don't want to reward such institutions. That's just religious discrimination cloaked in something less intolerable: academic elitism. HBCUs probably face a similar problem: should we abolish or enforce strict racial quotes on them because there are racists who will toss a resume with Howard University on it? >…

Banning religious schools is often discussed here in Sweden. It has nothing to do with discrimination. The question is if religion has any right to exist in education that society pay for, and if religious element during education is compatible with the many regulations that cover the education sector.

Education is not some kind of of enterprise free from regulations. The consequences of bad education is similar to bad health care. As I see it, let schools worry about education, political system deal with politics, legal system deal with enforcing the law, health system deal with health issues, and religious communities deal with religion. Trying to mix them together will only cause intolerance and tensions in society.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#854

Post by okaram »

Mirioron wrote: post #724
jachee wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the status quo systematically oppresses one group and benefits another, the beneficiaries of said system will perceive any change to the status quo that would reduce the oppression of the former group as an unfair attack.

But it's not systemic oppression. The system doesn't try to keep poor people poor or uneducated. Do poor people have it harder? Yes, but they have many of the same opportunities available to them. The modern world is rich in information that is freely taught. College is signaling in large part, but there are plenty of opprobrious right now where skill beats signaling.

I'm not sure about ascribing desires to 'the system', but let me do so. The system does try to keep some/many people poor and uneducated in many different ways. If you want the most egregious examples, look at how we treat(ed?) blacks and Native Americans ... the system decreed blacks could be slaves up until one generation ago; the system decreed they would get way less legal rights up until 2 generations ago; the system decreed they would not get loans for housing up until at most one generation ago; the system currently harrasses them and puts them in prison ... many features of our school system seems designed to keep poor people uneducated.

Many times it is harder to see what is currently going on; so, if you want a more blatant current example, right now, the system is keeping undocumented immigrants poor and uneducated on purpose.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#855

Post by tty2300 »

arkh wrote: post #845
tty2300 wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried that in Australia. Didn't work well.

I may not have been clear. It does not apply only to poor people. All children, from rich and poor parents would have to be raised in the same institutions.

So now we emotionally cripple an entire generation?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#856

Post by mythrwy »

remarkEon wrote: post #648
mythrwy wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I wasn't clear. The policy is dumb and dangerous, agreed. But advantage is real. You can't list all the sacrifices your parents made while in the same breathe implying "no advantage here, this isn't fair". The devil is in devising a fair system to determine advantage in an objective way that won't be rife with corruption and gaming the system. I highly doubt this will be possible and attempts likely will result…

Recognizing in what way? That’s what we’re all talking about here. How should we “recognize” that OP’s parents worked really hard?

As I stated, so this is repeat, objectively, if someone achieves the same thing without the advantage they are better qualified.

Should we be admitting the most qualified students or the best grinder parents kids?

The potential of this policy is more than "social justice" (if it were to succeed which seems unlikely).

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#857

Post by [deleted] »

GhostVII wrote: post #215

I think instead of trying to lower the bar for low income students, we should work on solving the actual problems causing them to perform more poorly on the SAT (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills). If students are accepted with a lower SAT score because of their background, they are likely going to struggle in University, since they have lower scores than the rest of their class, s…

[deleted]

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#858

Post by arkh »

tty2300 wrote: post #855
arkh wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may not have been clear. It does not apply only to poor people. All children, from rich and poor parents would have to be raised in the same institutions.

So now we emotionally cripple an entire generation?

But the gap is closed.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#859

Post by beasteurope »

arkh wrote: post #858
tty2300 wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now we emotionally cripple an entire generation?

But the gap is closed.

Maybe we should learn to live with inequality? Seems as if you can't build an egalitarian society without tyranny.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#860

Post by wolco »

manfredo wrote: post #824
wolco wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly the people who mock students from private religious schools are also mocking students from historic black colleges or those who went to comminity college. Next time you hear about this speak up and change the conversation.

Not the case, at least in my experience. I work in the San Francisco Bay Area. We recruit exclusively at Ives, the likes of Stanford, MIT, Georgia Tech, etc. and HBCUs and HWCUs. There's a big push to increase racial and gender diversity at least in this region. There's not much much diversity at religious colleges (>82% white, nowhere near the kind of representation we're looking for).

Before you try to diversity based on race you need to diversity more based on other factors and stop hiring from the same schools as everyone.

Who cares if you have x number from certain race groups if everyone is from the same monoculture. Why not try to hire the best from African schools.. that will give you race diversity more important cultural diversity.

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