European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case • Hacker News Board

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#851

Post by neolefty » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #845

codedokode wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry if I didn't write it clearly. What I wanted to say is that Google required phone manufacturers not to make agreements with Google's competitors (e.g. not to preinstall competitors's apps or search engine as default) as a condition for obtaining a license for Google Play Services or Google Play. And this is bad for competition in mobile software market and bad for consumers. Instead Google should just sell…

Ah. So this goes to the question i ask: If Google had to do as you say (sell the software with no restrictions), why would google ever sell the software in the first place? Microsoft tried that and was fairly unsuccessful. Future folks would likely just choose the Apple model - don't sell the software at all.

Future folks

There are not any future folks who can adopt Apple's model.

The only viable mobile OSes for the foreseeable future are Android and iOS, unless Android can be trust-busted. Even Microsoft couldn't do it. And they really tried.

If Android can be de-bundled, then Samsung can pursue Tizen, because Google will not be allowed to prevent it. They're the only ones with sufficient resources and market share to have a shot.

Edit: Or, ironically, Google—who are the only ones not bound by Android OEM agreements—with Fuchsia.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#852

Post by cageface » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

datalist wrote: post #850

cageface wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been developing mobile apps professionally for 8 years. Clients want and care about iOS first. Android gets kicked down the road and outsourced to a third party every time. The only thing that’s changed is that people realize they need an android version eventually, instead of just ignoring it completely. Maybe it’s different in some other markets but this is simply irrefutable in the USA and anybody trying to a…

Eight years ago I'd agree with you, probably even five-ish, but for the past two, three years there is virtually no difference anymore and Android is usually the priority, except for some designer firms who still live in their Apple bubble. For the US market it might be different, as it is one of the few markets where Apple is still the clear leader.

iOS rules the USA startup market, which is still where most of the money and energy is globally. Believe me I’d prefer that this were not the case.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#853

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #669

lloydde wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Chrome also did far better than everyone else was a user local install, ie an install that didn’t require admin on the PC. Shadow IT installs was a huge advantage over Firefox in Chrome’s first years.

I still have to fight this occasionally. :| In one instance, I ended up just telling the antivirus software at a company to flag Chrome as a virus and block it from executing. Software installation requiring admin rights is by design , and circumventing it is unethical as heck.

The eternal conflict between lowly workers trying to get their job done and the IT department trying to prevent them from doing their jobs to make their own life easier, based on the notion that if users can't use the infrastructure, they can't break it.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#854

Post by datalist » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #852

datalist wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight years ago I'd agree with you, probably even five-ish, but for the past two, three years there is virtually no difference anymore and Android is usually the priority, except for some designer firms who still live in their Apple bubble. For the US market it might be different, as it is one of the few markets where Apple is still the clear leader.

iOS rules the USA startup market, which is still where most of the money and energy is globally. Believe me I’d prefer that this were not the case.

I am not arguing iOS'es market share in the US, I am saying it is of faaaaaaaaar less relevance outside the US.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#855

Post by XparentX » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Amen to this fine! Finally reality kicks in for Google. Late shall the sinners wake. I have been waiting and anticipating this in many years. It’s just the beginning. Facebooks will be next!

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#856

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

datalist wrote: post #854

cageface wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS rules the USA startup market, which is still where most of the money and energy is globally. Believe me I’d prefer that this were not the case.

I am not arguing iOS'es market share in the US, I am saying it is of faaaaaaaaar less relevance outside the US.

[deleted]

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#857

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #683

dmix wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I remember seeing that now on my moms laptop. I remember it was quite aggressive in warning you not to switch away from Edge. Microsoft can never let the marketing people stop having control and ruining their products. They are trying to make it more useable and user friendlier, but it's funny seeing the push back within the product.

I've recently said that Microsoft is the most self-defeating company in history. They often take all of the goodwill they've earned, and then torch it on minor battles that aren't really making them any money. If someone's gotten into the settings screen to change their default, they probably have tried Edge, or at least know what it is and have some reason for switching. Windows 10 telemetry is a great example: They…

I'd say the forced update from 8 to 10, with all the UI dark patterns, was even worse. An OS "collecting telemetry" on you was mostly an abstract problem for non-technical users. An OS trying to annoy and trick you into updating to that scary "telemetry version" - that's another thing, and I know plenty of people who were pissed off about that. Hell, my own mother sticks to 8 and still refuses to entertain the thought of using 10 precisely because of those attempts at forced upgrade.

It's a shame, really, because Windows 10 is a decent OS, and it fixed most of the issues with 8.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#858

Post by izacus » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

calcifer wrote: post #365

izacus wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This literally strengthens Apple because they'll keep shipping services with integrated features (banning competition) while Android devices will be banned from providing the same integrated experience.

I don't understand why people keep making this argument. It's not about having integrated services. It's about abusing your dominance in one service to force another onto OEMs and consumers. Apple has no market dominance in the EU, so nothing in this ruling is relevant to them.

I think you misunderstood my argument, because I really can't see what your message has to do with mine.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#859

Post by cageface » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

datalist wrote: post #841

datalist wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet there was competition. It is similar to today, respectively we have even less choice, we have two platforms, out of which one is mostly a lifestyle company and has a minor market share of ~20%, whereas the second is dominating the market at ~80%

And no, the web barely mattered in the mid to late 90s. That was the time when it was still nice there ;)

That was the first dot com boom. Are you seriously trying to argue the web didn’t matter at that point? It was all about the web.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#860

Post by datalist » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #859

datalist wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And no, the web barely mattered in the mid to late 90s. That was the time when it was still nice there ;)

That was the first dot com boom. Are you seriously trying to argue the web didn’t matter at that point? It was all about the web.

The web was just slowly emerging at that point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage#/media/F...

15% vs 80% these days. And thats the "developed world", globally it was around 2%.