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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#851

Post by adontz »

appleflaxen wrote: post #806
adontz wrote: post #801

I am white cis male. I am damned in this topic by definition. But still. I am pretty sure it is all about money, not engineering. Women are not inferior on average, but they are different. This is fact. There are jobs which are much harder for male to handle compared to female, and I am not talking about child care or something, but mostly stressful jobs requiting multitasking. Males are bad at multitasking on averag…

> I know a guy, a chess trainer who trains girls. He always tries to schedule matches based on trainee period cycle to let his girls do their best. this seems really crazy to me. the person playing chess is an individual. whether it's the best time for them to play or not should be up to them . Whether it's before their period or before lunch: a million things affect us, and we all have agency in deciding what we wan…

> Whether it's the best time for them to play or not should be up to them.

It is not that simple is sports. Sport is about pushing one to the limit and a bit beyond, by unquestionable trainer authority.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#854

Post by peoplewindow »

mrbill wrote: post #134
maxxxxx wrote: post #12

This is starting to be scary. Instead of government companies are acting as thought police. I think a lot of people will watch what they are saying publicly from now on.

When you do/say/write something that has the potential to cause problems for your employer, you should be aware of and prepared for the possible consequences. I certainly would not write a multi-page screed criticizing the policies and practices of my employer, distribute it at work, and then expect to keep my job or have no repercussions.

How do you think companies work through their own policies or change direction?

Employees write strategy memos all the time.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#855

Post by gadders »

tunesmith wrote: post #123

People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…

He only thought/suggested that, though. He's being punished for his thoughts.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#856

Post by peoplewindow »

che_shirecat wrote: post #283
thesmallestcat wrote: post #170

Maybe Google fired him for being an idiot as they value smarts? Unless you're trying to get into politics, you have to be pretty dumb to publish something like this under your own name, let alone distribute it at your job . Not a big surprise.

this was my take on the whole issue. damore was basically poking Google with a stick and daring them to fire him by publishing an inflammatory political memo via an internal channel - pretty idiotic any way you look at it irregardless of whether his memo was right/wrong/somewhere in between.

Google has a long tradition of this sort of thing. It has always demanded that employees challenge it.

Other internal memos that caused internal upset - real names on Google+. Why Google Video failed. A post mortem on Google Wave (that directly criticised ex-Googlers who had been in senior management). Probably a lot more I'm forgetting.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#857

Post by strken »

postnihilism wrote: post #275

This feels like the blue and black (white and gold) dress. It boggles my mind that people don't see the fundamental and toxic misogyny in this 'manifesto'. Please have a woman you care about in your life, preferably one in tech, read this and then ask their opinion of the piece. The "treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group" sentiment of the author is fine except that we have hundreds of…

Apparently, half the world read "all women are bad at writing software, and we should never hire them", when the other half saw "lots of women don't want to work for google, and we should hire only the ones who do". When the lines are so far apart, reading between them is basically a Rorschach test.

In this sense, it would have been a much better outcome for him to have ended up debating his views in front of a studio audience rather than packing his belongings into a box, because then we'd know exactly what he thinks, and google would have either a solid reason to fire him or a way of mitigating the PR damage.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#858

Post by lr4444lr »

Kluny wrote: post #573
jorgemf wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…

As a woman with a disability who got hired by a diversity program, I don't give a fuck. I just need a job. Working at McDonald's sucks balls. If I really couldn't do the job, they could have fired me at the end of my probation period. I'm quite happy to earn my position after I've got it.

Would you think it unreasonable then for an able-bodied male who might be hired at the dismantling of such a program because the spot opens up to say he "doesn't give a " if that change of circumstance gave him a similar career advantage, and he intended to work hard once accepted to fill the shoes of the role?

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#859

Post by foozed »

jneal wrote: post #784

I'm honestly curious...if diversity is such an important issue to so many people, why do large sports organizations such as the NFL, NBA, etc, still separate women into their own leagues and not allow them into the "men's league"? And probably in the range of billions of people support such organizations. I personally feel are humans are equal regardless of race sex origin or any other factor. If you are a human, you…

How are you comparing diversity in the tech world with sports? It's not even apples and oranges, it's apples and asteroids.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#860

Post by peoplewindow »

nyxtom wrote: post #843

You know, I actually thought Sundar's response to this whole thing was actually quite on point. He addresses the issue of needing to be able to discuss points in the memo that are open to discussion (such as the effectiveness of a policy and how to make things more inclusive for all); and at the same time addresses the hostile work environment that was produced as a result of the surrounding context. It sounds like m…

> They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent

Yet he fired the guy.

Ultimately he had to pick a side: freedom of speech or women who got upset by a bunch of links to scientific studies with a pile of social and cultural commentary on top. He picked the latter.

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