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As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

thewalrus.ca

841–850 of 942 posts

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#841

I called this maybe 3y ago, but I think so did everyone else that was sane. Sure, we get immense value from AI, but indiscriminately injecting into everything, the one thing we know to be unreliable above the threshold we used to fire people for, is probably the greatest undoing of all the good companies like Google brought to the internet. I mean what a way to destroy your legacy of democratizing information. The am…

what value do we get from AI?

You know Ava from those ads?

Her and I are… kind of a thing, not like dating dating but, yeah we hang out

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#842
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a conundrum I always found interesting. If you know how to use a search engine (i.e. knowing how to use operators and structure a search query), you're almost always able to find what you're looking for very quickly, and in most cases (well, before SEO), the results are high-quality. You'll spend the same amount of time trying to fact-check an LLM (since you'll likely skim the articles it used in generating i…

> you're almost always able to find what you're looking for very quickly[...] You'll spend the same amount of time trying to fact-check an LLM I've been an expert Google user for over a decade and I can only partially agree with the first statement, and not at all with the second. Yes, a search engine alone is fantastic at finding things based on keywords if you know how to invoke it properly. However, there are lots…

I guess it really comes down to how much faith you're willing to put into the answers LLMs are putting in front of you.

If you trust them blindly, then the vast experiment improvements are obvious and apparent.

If you don't, or if you're the kind of person that likes to research your sources, LLMs are a speed bump.

> because you can't have the vocabulary to search for it directly unless you already know the answer. Indirect questions such as "framework options to do x and y in z situation in this language". The best you could hope for pre-LLM was to find forum posts asking the same or a vaguely similar question and comparing a lot of options, finding out you picked a dud after spending an hour on it because it's fundamentally incompatible due to reasons, searching again, etc.

I disagree with this. Stack Overflow (pre-moderation insanity) forums and the like was and is great at finding answers to questions like this. Reddit threads were also useful for this sort of discussion. Much learning was had while reading through the comments on my way to the answer. Sometimes, doing that refined or re-aligned what I was looking for, as is common when doing research.

Again, it comes back to faith in LLMs. Sure, I can ask an LLM to give me a comprehensive overview of web serving frameworks for $LANGUAGE. It's up to the user to determine how valid the information being put in front of them is.

LLMs can also be extremely confidently incorrect. Example: I used an LLM recently in "research" mode to outline how a solution I sell stacks up to the next biggest competitor in pricing structures. It gave me a lot of (too much) information in a readily-digestible format, including, surprisingly, the "agreed-upon" price of the competitor's products per SKU.

Pricing for enterprise sales contracts is very dark arts, so I went to the sources attached to the result to confirm those numbers. Lo and behold, the prices I was given were nowhere to be found in any of those articles.

Meanwhile, I used a search engine manually to see if I could find a leaked price book using "filetype:pdf" operators, mostly for grins. Found it in 15 seconds. That still wasn't applicable to what I was looking for, as it was for an industry different from mine, but it was there.

I could have told the LLM to deep search PDFs (despite telling it to "ultrathink"), but at that point, again, what is the point of using LLMs if I can do the work myself?

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no way I'm – directly or indirectly – buying Russian products Why not?

In my case: Russian state is my direct enemy and most likely to invade my country. And would do it if they would consider success likely. Previous wars with Russia were obnoxious with very bad consequences, so I dislike idea of even very indirectly funding them. And I support actions that are harmful to Russian economy, also when they are harmful to me - as long as it is not too badly balanced. As this is much cheape…

>Russian state is my direct enemy and most likely to invade my country. And would do it if they would consider success likely.

What makes you think so?

>Previous wars with Russia were obnoxious with very bad consequences

What do you mean?

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who long for the web of the 90s, I always feel like they must not be very interesting. Imagine complaining that we can't go back to libraries of the 1970s when the ones today have 3D printers, DVDs to rent, etc. because "there are too many teenagers" The Internet used to be a space for high-IQ people, and now it's filled with low attention span, low impulse control people. Tik Tok and Instagram are the worst…

A quick read of any old usenet arguments should instantly disabuse you of this absurd notion. Or the old archives of stupid IRC conversations. The old internet was a space for people who were incentivized to spend significant effort dealing with technical things to connect to strangers , which has nothing to do with IQ or "intelligence" or anything like that. There has always been plenty of people who are extremely s…

Being able to deal with “technical minutiae” is highly linked to intelligence. What you’re referring to is lacking social graces, which is different than lacking intelligence. Having a hobby that involved reasoning about abstract things like IRQ assignments is a pretty good proxy for IQ.

Similarly, back when computers were expensive, people on the internet generally were higher income, which is also quite significantly correlated with intelligence.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#845
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there's certainly less of a monoculture now that people have greater choice in what media they consume. Personally I have trouble seeing that as a bad thing. Greater diversity of taste, culture, and opinion makes for a richer, more interesting society in my opinion. Though I recognize it does have downsides. I wonder if there's a way to keep the positive effects of such diversity but mitigate the drawbacks. Cert…

Culture is shared experiences. There is no culture if everyone lives in their own little bubble of reality.

There are other people in those bubbles, it's not an isolated void. HN is one such bubble. Yes it's a smaller bubble, there's not nearly as many people here as there were watching broadcast television back in the 1980s, but it would be wrong to say there is no culture here. Same goes for the millions of other small communities out on the web and social media. But as I said, it's certainly true there are downsides associated with that diversity.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#846
post #213
post #196

AI will kill the internet because it is killing the incentive to make it. It is an industrial-strength example of why we don’t allow stealing.

Recently, I had some ideas I would normally just put up on a blog, in the public domain for anyone to develop on top of. Now, I'm feeling slightly reluctant because an LLM will ingest it, remix it and serve it in response to a query by some unimaginative individual who will either conclude that they are smart, or that LLMs are capable of original thought, or both. And they will have no clue where the idea originated…

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Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#847

My father used to print websites up and put them in a 3-ring binder. Now it seems more prescient than anachronistic.

I think the modern day equivalent to this is saving PDFs of webpages you want preserved. I have the feeling that I'm turning into my grandfather every time I do it, but it's proven valuable from time to time.

check out karakeep

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#848
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine! Humans who read my blog typically won't credit me if I help inspire them either. (I was pointing out that "they'll train on a version that strips out you as the author" seems to be is incorrect about how training works)

It knows you, but it doesn't know me. Perhaps you are legitimately noteworthy enough to not worry about this! My experience being on the searching end is that these things are terrible about attribution of where they find anything . Which has bad consequences not just for authorship, but for correctness (which is the usual reason I'm poking at them -- they're being wrong again). This makes a lot of sense when you con…

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Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#849
post #835

The world needs an anti-SEO search engine, that explicitly penalizes for something that appears SEO.

And use AI to detect it right?

I suspect many SEO practices could be detected automatically without LLMs: link farming typically uses cheaper domain names, commercial content might typically contain certain keywords, certain kind of tracking is more suspicious, affiliate links use known domains, etc.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#850

I called this maybe 3y ago, but I think so did everyone else that was sane. Sure, we get immense value from AI, but indiscriminately injecting into everything, the one thing we know to be unreliable above the threshold we used to fire people for, is probably the greatest undoing of all the good companies like Google brought to the internet. I mean what a way to destroy your legacy of democratizing information. The am…

I called it 2001/2002 or whenever they appeared when I tried to explain why personalized search results are the beginning of the end of a shared reality and therefore the ability to reason and act in public, and with others. I bet some still consider it hyperbole. It's just taking in trends and seeing where the glacier moves to, how the cookie will crumble so to speak.

> I tried to explain why personalized search results are the beginning of the end of a shared reality

It ignores the fact that there was no such shared reality. Just go and look for the time when everyone agreed if racism existed.

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