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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Federal prosecutors won't even pursue cases unless they think there's a high chance of success. The problem with this theory is that it ignores the incentives on the other side in a criminal case. When you get charged with something, the prosecutor offers you a deal and that deal is almost invariably a significantly lower penalty than what happens if you go to court and get convicted. The plea deal is a lesser char…

What youre saying is true, but the reality is that the number of people actually affected by it is vanishingly small. Of course its not vanishing if youre that person affected, but as far as the system goes, its negligible. The reality is that most people who become subject to criminal prosecution are guilty. The reason can often be attributed to overbroad laws, but that still means you are guilty and will likely los…

> The reality is that most people who become subject to criminal prosecution are guilty.

This is not the reality, but your own justifying premise. which is why you instinctively began it with the proclamation "this is the reality."

I personally pled guilty for something that I didn't do, and that no one involved thought I did. I was offered a plea bargain of zero time, zero fine, and it would be expunged from my record in a year if I weren't convicted of anything else - which is evidence that the prosecution knew that I hadn't done anything. This was actually a systemic kindness - the people involved in the system couldn't live with the idea that they were punishing me for nothing.

The alternative was going on trial for a stupid felony called "possession of the instrument of a crime" which not only had nothing to do with the conditions of my initial arrest, but carried something like a 5-15 year sentence. The odds that they would have gotten a conviction on such a bizarre felony (the only reason it existed was to have a lower standard) in the state I lived, and with the race I was, and with a public defender, was around 100% imo. They go hard as a punishment for forcing them to hold a trial - that would be the excuse for those same kind people as before to label me a troublemaker who had turned down their kindness, and now deserved to go to prison for nothing.

You've made a comment with a lot of words, but the only reasoning you have is "the reality is," and you surrounded it with pronouncements and some personal anecdote about one woman. You're talking about a system that convicts 90% of the people (unlike me) who said "I didn't do anything, they know I didn't do anything, they certainly will let me go once they figure it out."

> if you end up coerced into accepting a plea deal despite your innocence, you are not a normal person.

The system is unjust because people like you support it exactly as it is...

> need to stop the school to prison pipeline,

...with lefty sloganistic jargon, playing the part of a good progressive prosecutor. You won't see it until it happens to you or someone you care about, then it will become the most important issue in the world. The fact that the US criminal justice system is hard on black Americans is not "racism" or "white supremacy" but because black Americans are not the friends or loved ones of people in power, and will never be. When you personally are prosecuted for nothing, or even for a crime that your peers deem trivial, the resumes of the people at your protest and your candlelight vigil will force people to pay attention, or risk their own comfort. Most people are not so lucky.

The system is an atrocity. It fails the victims of crimes, the accused of crimes, the perpetrators of crimes, and to protect the safety of the public in the aftermath of crime. It is simply an enrichment device for its participants, and an empty performance to mollify the middle class. It also serves to warehouse the wealthless underclass of the descendants of freed slaves away from view when they are found unfit for menial work.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#842
Duress pin should unlock a benign version with ai generated chats to ai generated friends about the latest benign topics.

In the Age of LLMs we could generate a fake digital existence as fast as we can delete a real one.

The goal is to appear like you complying without any evidence you are not. Graphene — build this feature!

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#843
post #261

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

Would it have been wiser if that person had, as a US citizen, just refused to provide a PIN? At the most they'd just confiscate the phone, and it'd be encrypted anyway. No actual destruction of anything. On another note, maybe GrapheneOS should add some kind of feature where the phone involuntarily destructs if a correct PIN isn't entered for 48 hours (or whatever the user sets at installation time, and changing the…

You can set GrapheneOS to reboot into before-first-unlock state if it hasn't been unlocked within a certain period of time, and BFU is more exploit resistant, and can't be biometrically unlocked. I have it set to 18 hours, but you can set it anywhere from 10 minutes to 72 hours.

So yeah, as a US citizen re-entering the country, you would probably want to set it to 10 minutes, or just shut down. Then hand it over, refuse to unlock, consider the phone lost.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#844
I have said this in multiple occasions both on and off line. The world is converging to China in terms of how and how much the governments want to be totalitarian. China already has decades of experience on this, and is both strong and subtle in doing this; almost elegant. US and Europe just got started. It's just too good to resist. (For the government, that is.)

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can just ask you to unlock it for them.

They can ask, yes. And I can refuse. They can’t detain me more than temporarily, and they can’t prevent me from entering the country.

They can still make your life very difficult. They could throw you in jail for "obstructing investigation" or something similar.

Not in US, but had my phone seized by authorities and was asked to unlock it. I'm walking free, but I think what really saved me is that I genuinely complied with investigation and the only place where I drew the line was me giving away my password.

If I used my right to remain silent AND not give away the password, I'd probably be charged with something. I'm sure its very similar in many countries, including US.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the duress PIN on sticker on your phone. Maybe put it backwards and don’t say anything to border patrol. Have them try it out and erase the phone and then you can legitimately say you didn’t do anything and they did it themselves.

I wouldn't write it down, I would just make it 1234. They're bound to try that. Then they have absolutely no case against you.

That's the combination on my luggage!

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#848

If this happened in an EU country you'd all be wetting yourselves, but for some reason the rooms different today. The professional advice we are given traveling to the US is back up you phone, wipe it, travel and restore once you are comfortable. Sad state of affairs guys

In the US, he could have refused to give the pin and that's protected under the 5th Amendment. They would have nothing because they couldn't get into the encrypted phone. In many countries other then the US like Ireland, they have key disclosure laws which require you to testify against yourself. In the UK, police can even require key disclosure without a judge.

Wait 'till you hear about the special criminal court...

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in these situations your absolute best bet is fawning compliance. Ask precisely how high they want you to jump. Perhaps your friendly smiling Yes-Sir-No-Sir-3-bags-Full-Sir act might just be enough to let you get on your way without anything else happening apart from a stamp in your passport. Even the slightest hint of defiance or surliness from you to a border guard/policeman/etc - potentially at the end of…

This comment irritates me. On one hand, I agree with it. On the other: how is it not just a version of “if you have nothing to hide”? At some point, you should fight for what you consider basic human rights. Where you draw the line and how you fight is up to you. It sounds like your attitude is to comply with whatever the authorities want. It seems like a completely innocent person is the best one to push back on aut…

No, you're not.

And idk how people don't understand how "politeness" gets weaponized.

This video is an example

https://youtu.be/amSIcL3V5C4?is=hmlOx2t7dHg5j-lJ

Here, the only way this guy could've had a "good attitude" is if he had let the lady do whatever she wants with his service dog. This behavior is very common in situations where people feel entitled to something, but know the counterparty has the absolute right to refuse to cooperate. No matter how politely that information is conveyed, it's "rude" because they're being denied something they want.

The police don't like my attitude when I firmly say "no, sorry, I won't be unlocking my phone. I will only do what I am legally required to do."

People have a hard time understanding this because they are under the impression that they know how to be polite because they do what they think is polite. They are unaware that politeness is subjective and slippery and that people can and do use it to manipulate others into doing things they're uncomfortable with.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in these situations your absolute best bet is fawning compliance. Ask precisely how high they want you to jump. Perhaps your friendly smiling Yes-Sir-No-Sir-3-bags-Full-Sir act might just be enough to let you get on your way without anything else happening apart from a stamp in your passport. Even the slightest hint of defiance or surliness from you to a border guard/policeman/etc - potentially at the end of…

This comment irritates me. On one hand, I agree with it. On the other: how is it not just a version of “if you have nothing to hide”? At some point, you should fight for what you consider basic human rights. Where you draw the line and how you fight is up to you. It sounds like your attitude is to comply with whatever the authorities want. It seems like a completely innocent person is the best one to push back on aut…

[Am in agreement with being conflicted about this advice]

In a normal functioning society with law enforcement that is actually accountable to it's citizens, yes - polite pushback will likely have no horrible consequences.

In a country that is either already in the depths of fascism/authoritarianism - or rapidly heading there, fighting for rights is seen as a "red flag".

See also: "On Tyranny" (Timothy Snyder) and "Do Not Obey in Advance".

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