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Honda is killing its EVs

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841–850 of 919 posts

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They manufacture the magnets, but they don't produce the rare earths themselves. They're still getting something like 60-70% of their supply from China.

That's 60% to 70% down from 90%+ and dropping steadily every year. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/08/business/japan-rare-earth...

Right, and that 20-30% drop took them fifteen years. That's not exactly the blink of an eye, they're still looking at many decades to fully wean themselves off Chinese sources.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#842
post #571
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To compete in EV, one has to compete also in battery manufacturing. Increasingly Japan is unable to keep up with China and even Korean manufacturers. Panasonic is still in the race due to their decades lead, but its market is largely shrinking. Once China took over batteries, it would have been unlikely for Japan to take the EV market, just like Sony. Same with most American EV manufacturers who are unable to compete…

They can purchase the battery technology, just as many manufacturers already do. I hate to be a luddite, but they also don't need to be pioneers to succeed here. They need cars that meet their customers needs, just like not every ICE car needs to have an F1 racing engine in it.

For that they need captive market that keeps China out to get the kind of marketshare they enjoy now, otherwise chinese makers will sweep in and dominate the market. Or another option is to just take Chinese EVs and rebadge them, like some manufacturers are doing.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#843
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto start is pretty much universally hated especially since it's ubiquitous and can usually only be turned off for a single ride. But cool, I'm glad you like it. Cameras and electronics make the car much more expensive to repair. But I'm confused, are you pro-technology in car or are you one of those that say "this exact level of technology is perfect, any more or less would be bad". I see this weird tech hater sent…

>>Auto start is pretty much universally hated especially since it's ubiquitous and can usually only be turned off for a single ride. Which I absolutely don't understand. It's a fantastic technology and I wish I could retro-fit them to some of my older cars too, it's literally fantastic. Like, who likes sitting in standstill traffic and listening to their 4 cylinder rambler working when they are just standing still???…

The key word there is disappeared which means engineering effort was put into vehicle design to make it a non issue. more robust/new starter design, more expensive battery tech required, simulations to validate no carbon buildup and real world testing, software calibration to make sure if engine is too cold or turbo too hot doesn't auto stop. All driving up costs to consumer thus consumers would liek to have something for that added cost. For many rural drivers a typical commute may be 15 miles with 2-3 stoplights and 1-2 lights. this effectively negates the fuel benefitsand often is annoying when coming to a stop at a stopsign to have car turn off momentarily for no benefit and possibly detriment to fuel economy if the ratio of stop sign initiated auto stops is higher than stop and sit at a stop light. I do appreciate personally the moments of quiet when not moving but is it worth it the added cost to my vehicle ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#844

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Exactly. I dont want the software and I dont want something that I paid $100k to be gated tomorrow by a software update or broken by it. Or the constant reporting on me to god knows who. Until this dumbass touch screen design idea gets removed from a car, I am not buying such a car. Even it means paying more in gas. Touch and SDV is the dumbest thing in a car. My motion is not to be tracked and for sale.

I love the new BMWs. Their software is shit tho.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#845
post #453

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

I thought more software meant I could write a little Lua and get the seat in the second preset position when I pressed the key fob in a particular way...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Leave it on. I want it off, and I want it to stay off when turned off. The start delay is not a big deal in traffic that's stop-and-go. But I have a poor-visibility situation at the end of my street, for which the only solution is "move away". There was a light indicating if a car was approaching over the hill, but when it was damaged the city didn't replace it. So when I hit the accelerator, I need the car to…

>>I need the car to go right then. And again, in modern cars with IGS systems the engagement is literally instantaneous. I really recommend trying it, it's pretty neat.

In a 2023 Mercedes it is most assuredly not instantaneous. Maybe it's just their implementation that's unpredictable. But that's the car my wife owns, so it's the one I've tried it on.

Still, keep using it if you like it. I don't hate that it exists. I hate that I can't turn it off and leave it off.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#847
post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's silly is that the reality you describe is a choice that's been made, not something fundamental to EVs. Cars like the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt are supremely inexpensive. China's BYD cars are extremely cheap for what they are. American/European car makers realized there is a large class of people who are wealthy and will buy a high end EV for status reasons, and started chasing that market instead.

Which Leaf? Leaf 1st gen with 150km range in summer and 100km in winter and which are already decade old? Those yeah, cheap, but also useless. Leaf 2 are nothing like that. Even base model with small-ish 40kWh battery is 30k euro, and 60kWh model is starting close to 40k euro. And for that price it's a small c-class hatchback, competing with way better cars, like large and packed d-class sedans or SUVs. And charging…

The 1st gen Leafs are absolutely not useless. They have a specific use case, which they excel at. That use case is simply different from most cars, which are general use and can drive many hundreds of km. If your use case for a vehicle matches the 1st gen Leaf, it blows away anything else except a bicycle in terms of cost per distance.

In the US, DC fast charging costs ~$0.50/kWh. A typical EV gets around 3.5mi/kWh, which is $0.14/mile. An ICE car that gets 30 mi/gal sees breakeven at $4.30/gallon for gas. Which, while currently higher than the average gas price for most of the US, is less than the average for some states and certainly within the range of possibility countrywide.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had a ubuquitious 100cc/9hp scooter called Activa in India. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki are a drop in the bucket in EV scooter sales and Honda's offerings are the most hilarious.

What do you mean by "hilarious"?

They are more expensive than the offerings by legacy (TVS and Bajaj make petrol and EV) and neo manufacturers and offer much less in battery, charging speed etc.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#849
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids and PHEVs are more complicated given that they are both ICEs and EVs. A pure EV is much cheaper, and many places in the developing world don't have easy access to oil anyways.

Even in the US, our overpriced EVs are cheaper than comparable ICE. They’re mostly big, and compete with 20mpg models. At $4/gallon, you’ll spend $40K on gasoline to drive a new ICE car 200K miles. The EV premium is typically $10-20K. These are all luxury cars, so a trimline upgrade is often $10K. EVs have particularly poor resale value (the technology improves rapidly), so if you’re price sensitive you can get a muc…

At my current 6000 miles per year that would take over three decades. I’ve never owned a car longer than 10 years.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While EVs are heavier—increasing tire wear—their regenerative braking significantly reduces brake dust, and they eliminate tailpipe exhaust entirely. Overall, EVs offer a net reduction in particulates.

> Overall, EVs offer a net reduction in particulates. Nobody said anything to the contrary. I am sceptical about the reduction versus a modern, efficient hybrid, though. Those can use regenerative braking too. EVs are heavier which increases road wear. Everyone loves to forget about the road. When it comes to particulates and other issues, EVs are just "less bad". We still need to push for walking, cycling and trams…

> EVs are heavier which increases road wear. Everyone loves to forget about the road.

Passenger vehicles are pretty negligible when it comes to road wear compared to trucks (1000 times more). The weight is more important when we consider freight trucks (electric freight trains just get the power from overhead cables or a third rail). As freight trucks transition to electric, we will definitely have more road wear to worry about.

> When it comes to particulates and other issues, EVs are just "less bad".

Is this a perfect is the enemy of good argument? I mean sure, using public transit, bikes, and walking is better than using private personal transportation. But I can tell you...Beijing has all of that and electric cars are still much better than the ICEs they used to have.

> I hate how every comment on HN that doesn't sing the praises of EVs from the rooftops gets immediately downvoted.

All kinds of Perfect is the enemy of good comments generally get downvoted because the fallacy is overused on HN.

> Imagine opting for a climate controlled cabin or a larger vehicle if it meant a significant increase in charging time.

It really depends on how much you need to drive.

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