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Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

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Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#841
post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the people here are naive enough to think that. Most programmers can donate more than 70% of their income to Africa if they want to make world a better place, yet they only target people earning more than 3x of them, even though majority of the world earns less than 1/3rd of them.

spending your productive output making one of the most powerful terrible people alive more powerful just sounds depressing to me. do you really want your research to be how to make the personality of Elon's anti woke mind virus LLM better at erotic talk. I guess it comes down to your daily efforts serving only to make the world a worst place, vs having a neutral job

Allowing it to users who ask for erotic talk is in my opinion way better than forcing someone to watch shady ads based on private conversations.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#842

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Zoning is one area that’s better in space. And power density for solar is another. I don’t get your mining analogy though - a non upgradable data center pod is either going to pay off its capital costs or it won’t. Once it has, any revenue is close to 100% profit. 10k demand increase is the opposite of mining dynamics: there you get a 10k supply increase that the price has to support, in combination with more efficie…

Zoning is one area that’s better in space. Not really, though? The idea that Earth-based data centers need to be built in populated, developed areas is indeed dumb, yet it seems to be inexplicably baked into everyone's assumptions. In particular, the small discrete data centers that Musk wants to launch could go anywhere on Earth. They could be powered by local PV arrays and batteries, they can be cooled by smaller r…

All questions/comments that I don't know enough to opine on.

But, power density in terrestrial I think we can do some math and reasoning:

First, oceans are WAYYY more hostile than space. Oxidation + salt water + .. I don't think it's even close there. I don't think they are comparable.

Deserts and trackless wastelands - I have some experience with sub-Saharan logistics; a couple of points -- I would not be surprised if actual deployment to trackless wastelands is more expensive than lift. Analysts estimate $55k-85k per ton under starship. (Elon estimates much lower; let's stick with low end of analyst numbers).

Trackless wastelands are really hard to get to. For instance, I've seen a fuel truck tipped over on its side in a river next to a small tow truck tipped on its side in a river next to a larger crane trying to rescue the original truck and the "rescue" truck in Southern Kenya -- by no means a trackless waste -- probably a week long ordeal, JUST for diesel delivery. This was in an area under former British rule with roads and stuff.

Second, trackless wastelands are really hard to find. There are people everywhere, man. And they like free metal, free power, etc.

If we imagine instead just deploying to West Texas, I think the square footage does add up. 40 foot container -> call it 16 racks. Nvidia estimates 600kw per rack in 2027 with Vera Rubin(!!JFC!!). So, 10MW of power per container. Let's imagine we magically found water in West Texas and have a PUE of 1.2, so 12MW. Solar panels are like 20 W/sq ft.

I got lazy; Claude tells me with 2.5x land needed for spacing, infra, etc, 6.5 peak sun hours, a couple of acres for storage, roughly 130 acres (0.2 sq miles) + 53 Tesla megapacks for storage per container.

I'll revise my above thoughts - there is NO WAY it's cheaper to do that in trackless wastes than space. I don't know about west Texas, but I don't think it's crazy to think that you might want to spend five years on engineering and production scaling instead of town and county and state and federal permitting.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Morality is a luxury that only the independently wealthy can afford. No. At least as I understand the word, "morality" means something different than "do the right thing when it is easy". If only those who can afford it do it, it is not morality. Morality is choosing the right thing even when it costs you, even when it is hard.

Speaking as someone that has spent a large amount of time unemployed because I have a moral compass - let me know when you actually walk that talk. For me I could only do it because I had "f*ck you" money gained through investments, other people are able to do it because of welfare systems, or even through friends and family.

Textbook ad hominem. If the implication is that nobody sacrifices things for a principle or ever makes hard choices, that is so obviously wrong. Read some history.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#844
post #459

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Tesla won because Elon is a great seller, the product is mediocre at best but I’ve heard many times from friends that it was the same quality as a Mercedes Benz, so the reality distortion field is very real. And Americans in general don’t want electric cars for some reason. I’m happily driving my Buzz and charging on my solar panels instead of paying 5 bucks a gallon on diesel. The propaganda here is strong and peopl…

Teslas have a lot of flaws, but there is just now starting to be real competition. There was nothing like the model 3 in 2019. Tesla did well because they were first to market with a disruptive product people wanted, and because Elon sold it well. Both.

There was lots of competition in 2019: Volkswagen ID.3, Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-PACE, Polestar 1, etc., as well as lower-end entries like Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, and so on. Depends on exactly what you think Tesla is competing against.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use X or Grok. The fact that the elite and knowledge workers in this country are generally more left-leaning is pretty evident. The right wingers in these ranks make up a distinctive subgroup. These are the thoughts of pretty much everyone everywhere in the country and this becomes apparent if you ask randoms on the street, or you have attended college lectures, or have used a dictionary, or have read wikiped…

> The US is losing intellectually and technologically to countries like China. I call into question the general legitimacy of our academic and journalistic institutions. China has tons of green energy, high speed rail and frequently extols the virtues of socialism.

The success of chinese infrastructure validates my concern, which is with a specific faction of the american/western elite

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Have you ever wondered why the most educated and scholarly people in the country are left leaning? I suppose you think they were indoctrinated. But finding and teaching the truth is essentially their job. Learning how to evaluate sources and approach research logically is like academia 101. So doesn’t it seem strange that so few of them ever manage to see that they’re being indoctrinated? Or do you think a person’s p…

I have never wondered that because it is caused by many obvious factors.

>So doesn’t it seem strange that so few of them ever manage to see that they’re being indoctrinated?

I don't think most people care. They are primarily interested in career progression, social status, protecting the feelings of their peers.

They are willing to accept whatever ideology that occupies the water that they swim in. If the status quo was right wing, they would adopt the views of the right wing.

Beyond academia 101, you use that fundamental understanding of the scientific process to break the system, work backwards to justify your conclusion, p-hack, ensure grants and scholarships go to the correct people and whatever else it takes to succeed in that environment. I went to college, I've seen it happen in front of me.

It's the academic's job to find and teach the truth in the same way that it's the mechanic's job to fix your car. But the mechanic's incentives drive him to upsell you, charge you for work you don't need, and hell if he breaks something in the process you'll be coming back a lot sooner. So too it is the job of the knowlege worker to create more knowlege work.

>Or do you think a person’s political beliefs are assigned at birth and lefties just like academia for some reason?

I think that when a "normie" is told to imagine their future, they literally imagine themselves. That is to say, they don't imagine the mechanics of what their daily routine would be or imagine what values and strengths they would have; they imagine their future in the same way that they look at themselves in a mirror. There is a literal self-image involved.

They subscribe to a certain aesthetic (say, an upper-class aesthetic, or an artistic aesthetic, or a blue collar aesthetic or a military aesthetic) based on if they think it looks cool and then they work backwards to figure out what beliefs, values, strengths, etc. they need to fit in with society and play a certain designated character which is probably inspired by something they saw on TV. I am not joking.

So if you adopt, say, a punk rock style you would need to act rebellious to fit in, even if you do not feel the innate urge to do so based on your life experiences. When you enter the mosh pit it is like a safe, culturally designated, controlled aggression. Like sports. Because this style is associated with a certain type of rebellion you would get roped into leftist stuff. And because you become leftist, you naturally want to go to college to fraternize with more leftist types. The whole admission process is designed to filter out students based on their personality, not their tenacity for learning.

You can imagine what the reverse of this would look like for someone adopting right-wing associated aesthetics and culture. There are even right wing academic groups, controlled by a narrower overton window due to their weakness in the academic and bureaucratic domain.

None of this has to do with evaluating sources and approach research logically. Do you believe that people come out of the womb with a lifelong desire to pursue the truth?

This whole system of acculturation just seems too fake, orderly, and planned for me. Furthermore, I think it will ruin the country because it is too individualistic. In an ideal world, your political beliefs would stem from a combination of your life experiences and a practical analysis of the demands of your time.

It's treating politics like some sort of sports team rather than something strategic and decisive.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing anything other than the fact that Wikipedia is biased. Though I will say it's beyond argument that geographic ancestry has an effect on IQ on a statistical group level (the reasons for this are what's debated), and that IQ is the best measurement of G that we have.

> I'm not arguing anything other than the fact that Wikipedia is biased. It "is biased" to document human knowledge as accurately as possible. Is there something wrong with that?

Because it's not accurate? As I and others have pointed out?

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone that has spent a large amount of time unemployed because I have a moral compass - let me know when you actually walk that talk. For me I could only do it because I had "f*ck you" money gained through investments, other people are able to do it because of welfare systems, or even through friends and family.

Textbook ad hominem. If the implication is that nobody sacrifices things for a principle or ever makes hard choices, that is so obviously wrong. Read some history.

I literally said that I personally had done so; so the only ad hominem is coming from you.

I also asked if you had done it yourself, because, as I also said, from personal experience, it's a LOT easier said than done.

Edit: fixed subject as I hadn't realised the person accusing me of making an ad hominem was the person I had originally replied to.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked ChatGPT on whether or not it was the "scientific consensus." "Anonymous surveys of intelligence experts reveal division: a 2016 survey found that about 49% attributed 50% or more of the Black-White gap to genetics, while over 80% attributed at least 20%; an earlier 1980s survey showed similar splits. These views are more common in private or anonymous contexts, contrasting with public statements from bodies l…

The "scientific consensus" the parent comment mentioned is referring to published studies, with data to back up their conclusions. The numbers you are citing seem to be from an opinion poll. Where did any of the 49% surveyed get the idea that "50% or more of the Black-White gap" can be "attributed" to genetics? What is their methodology for the attribution? Bringing up an opinion poll as a counterpoint makes it read…

We don't really have "intelligence genes" mapped out, if they exist. Therefore, something like this, from Wikipedia: "Genetics do not explain differences in IQ test performance between racial or ethnic groups" is effectively a lie.

Genetics certainly don't explain all the differences in IQ. They very well might not explain the majority of the the difference. However, considering we know that intelligence is quite heritable along with various adoption and twin studies that have happened throughout the decades (along with simple freaking logic), we have a pretty good idea that it explains at least some of the difference. That "opinion poll," while not super-great because only some elected to reply, was a poll of experts in the fields that study this stuff, not random people.

A real unbiased article would mention that (and perhaps whatever counterarguments there are), not straight up do the encyclopedia equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "nah uh I can't hear you."

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an interview with xAI I was literally told that certain parts of the model have to align with Elon, and that Elon can call us and demand anything at anytime. No thanks!

Let’s restate this another way: “ In an interview with {COMPANY} I was literally told that … {COMPANY-OWNER} can call us and demand anything at anytime. “ Doesn’t sound so crazy when Elon name is removed from it. Note: I’m no Elon fan, but do think sometimes HN overreacts when his name is mentioned.

What? I work for a different frontier lab now, and it absolutely would be ridiculous if they told me the same thing. Luckily they haven't.

What products have you worked on where this would be deemed normal?

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