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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

bbc.com

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#841

Post by brightball »

tw85 wrote: post #831
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

It seems people have a rather short memory when it comes to twitter. When it was still run by Jack Dorsey, CP was abundant on twitter and there was little effort to tamp down on it. After Musk bought the platform, he and Dorsey had a public argument in which Dorsey denied the scale of the problem or that old twitter was aware of it and had shown indifference. But Musk actually did take tangible steps to clean it up a…

I meant to reply to you with this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46886801

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#842

Post by [deleted] »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #819
GaryBluto wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has always been illegal and morally reprehensible to create, own, distribute or store sexually explicit material that represents a real person without their consent, regardless if they are underage or not. Arguably morally reprehensible but it has not always been illegal (and still isn't in many places) if you're talking about images of adults.

"Argually" morally reprehensible? I don't think that's very cash money to be honest. This comment chain isn't about a difference of opinion, but a difference in morality - there's no debating possible about morals I think.

[deleted]

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#843

Post by rcpt »

brightball wrote: post #839
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

Agreed. For anyone curious, here's the UK report from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) from 2023-2024. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3p1j710ko Reports on sextortion, self-generated indecent images, and grooming via social media/messaging apps: Snapchat 54% Instagram 11% Facebook 7% WhatsApp 6-9% X 1-2%

What are the percentages?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#844

Post by pjc50 »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #777
SilverBirch wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also just very basic police work. We're investigating this company, we think they've committed a crime. Ok, why do you think that. Well they've very publicly and obviously committed a crime. Ok, are you going to prosecute them? Probably. Have you gone to their offices and gathered evidence? No thanks. Of course they're going to raid their offices! They're investigating a crime! It would be quite literally insane…

that's kinda the normalization argument, not the reason behind it "it is done because it's always done so"

Well, yes, it is actually pretty normal for suspected criminal businesses. What's unusual is that this one has their own publicity engine. Americans are just having trouble coping with the idea of a corporation being held liable for crimes.

More normally it looks like e.g. this in the UK: https://news.sky.com/video/police-raid-hundreds-of-businesse...

CyberGEND more often seem to do smalltime copyright infringement enforcement, but there are a number of authorities with the right to conduct raids.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#845

Post by pjc50 »

moorebob wrote: post #728
ReptileMan wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Prosecute people that use the tools, not the tool makers if AI generated content is breaking the law. A provider should have no responsibility how the tools are used. It is on users. This is a can of worms that should stay closed, because we all lose freedoms just because of couple of bad actors. AI and tool main job is to obey. We are hurling at "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" future with b…

But how would we bring down our political boogieman Elon Musk if we take that approach? Everything I read from X's competitors in the media tells me to hate X, and hate Elon. If we prosecute people not tools, how are we going to stop X from hurting the commercial interests of our favourite establishment politicians and legacy media?

Corporations are also people.

(note that this isn't a raid on Musk personally! It's a raid on X corp for the actions of X corp and posts made under the @grok account by X corp)

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#846

Post by learingsci »

pjc50 wrote: post #844
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's kinda the normalization argument, not the reason behind it "it is done because it's always done so"

Well, yes, it is actually pretty normal for suspected criminal businesses. What's unusual is that this one has their own publicity engine. Americans are just having trouble coping with the idea of a corporation being held liable for crimes. More normally it looks like e.g. this in the UK: https://news.sky.com/video/police-raid-hundreds-of-businesse... CyberGEND more often seem to do smalltime copyright infringement e…

“Americans are just having trouble coping with the idea of a corporation being held liable for crimes.”

I’m sorry but that’s absurd even amidst the cacophony of absurdity that comprises public discourse these days.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#847

Post by sandworm101 »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #836
sandworm101 wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> or store sexually explicit material that represents a real person without their consent Who told you that? Go ask Pamela Anderson or Paris Hilton about that one. There are rules about material created without consent, but people do not retain a perpetual right to have formerly consentual material taken down. Hollywood, let alone the porn industry, would collapse overnight if every disgruntled star could have movie…

> Paris Hilton She can't withdraw consent when she never gave it in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Night_in_Paris

She claimes, later, to have not consented but given the sophistication of the production no reasonable person could believe she had no idea it was being filmed. She might not consent to the exact public release but she was certainly well aware of being filmed on the day. She consented to the creation.

Same issue decades later during the iphone hacks/leaks. They did not consent to public release, but did consent to creation and private distribution, sometimes even taking and initially sharing the photos themselves.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#848

Post by pjc50 »

whatis991 wrote: post #704
yxhuvud wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you don't follow EU laws prepare to not do business in Europe. Likewise, if you don't follow US laws I'd advise against trying to do business in USA.

If X/Twitter was to be banned in the EU, and some of its citizens still wanted to access X/Twitter, let us say for the sake of getting alternative points of view on politics and news, would it be a good or a bad thing if accessing X/Twitter by IP was stopped? As in, a citizen of an EU country types x.com/CNN, because he or she wants to know the other side of some political issue between the EU and the USA, and he or…

Like anything involving hundreds of millions of users, there's going to be good or bad effects. However I have been on the internet long enough to have concluded that the idea that local law has _no effect at all_ on websites is not good. Ultimately if they don't comply they would probably have to be blocked.

CNN is a very silly example though, because .. you can just go to the CNN website separately. The one that is blocked is Russia Today and various other enemy propaganda channels.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#849

Post by pjc50 »

Palmik wrote: post #552
muyuu wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it sounds to me like a "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" kind of operation. France and the UK, and judging by yesterday's speech by the PM of Spain maybe the whole EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media by making it impossible to operate without total alignment with their vision and not just their (new) rules. Together with a…

> EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media For some reason you forgot to mention "Like the US did with TikTok".

Even earlier: PokerStars.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#850

Post by thrance »

master-lincoln wrote: post #749
thrance wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A generated picture of a family member in a bikini is an issue? I don't see it...

Generated by a stranger, then posted online on X for the whole world to see. Are you really OK with that, even if the subject was your 10 years old daughter?
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