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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#841

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

programjames wrote: post #840
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying we don’t hate people because of the color of their skin was something that conservatives said with Reagan through Bush 2 when he spoke in solidarity with American Muslims after 9/11. If we ban any symbol that might be used as politics we should ban the American flag in classrooms since that now has become a symbol of the MAGA movement. Defending banning a poster showing hands of people of different colors is j…

Talking about the greatness of America has been a theme among Democrats from FDR to JFK, when they spoke about defending and spreading American cultural values like democracy and freedom. It goes back even further to the 1840s with James K. Polk and Manifest Destiny. Banning the MAGA hat in the classroom isn't about political signalling - it's just straight out America hate. Do you see how silly you sound? Look, here…

MAGA was introduced by Trump and is a symbol of Trump. I didn’t argue that they shouldn’t ban “Hope” even though Hope was also something that wasn’t political before Obama. It was clearly partisan for Obama.

MAGA is not speaking to “American greatness”. It’s whining that America isn’t great any more because of among others gays and skinny jeans wearing west coast elite - ie making it great “again”

The idea of America not already being “great” was something that no Democrat could have said. We have been drinking the Kool Aid of American exceptionalism for a century.

If you listen to almost anyone in the MAGA camp, it meant “those evil minorities like the secret Muslim trying to bring Sharia law and those Hatians eating pets took over America and now it’s a crime ridden country infested by immigrants”

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#842

Post by programjames »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #841
programjames wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about the greatness of America has been a theme among Democrats from FDR to JFK, when they spoke about defending and spreading American cultural values like democracy and freedom. It goes back even further to the 1840s with James K. Polk and Manifest Destiny. Banning the MAGA hat in the classroom isn't about political signalling - it's just straight out America hate. Do you see how silly you sound? Look, here…

MAGA was introduced by Trump and is a symbol of Trump. I didn’t argue that they shouldn’t ban “Hope” even though Hope was also something that wasn’t political before Obama. It was clearly partisan for Obama. MAGA is not speaking to “American greatness”. It’s whining that America isn’t great any more because of among others gays and skinny jeans wearing west coast elite - ie making it great “again” The idea of America…

You still have yet to actually reply to me and my argument. As I said earlier, you need to improve at this skill if you want to actually convince people their position is wrong.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#843

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

programjames wrote: post #842
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MAGA was introduced by Trump and is a symbol of Trump. I didn’t argue that they shouldn’t ban “Hope” even though Hope was also something that wasn’t political before Obama. It was clearly partisan for Obama. MAGA is not speaking to “American greatness”. It’s whining that America isn’t great any more because of among others gays and skinny jeans wearing west coast elite - ie making it great “again” The idea of America…

You still have yet to actually reply to me and my argument. As I said earlier, you need to improve at this skill if you want to actually convince people their position is wrong.

What position is that?

1. That showing different colored hands raised with a heart in it is “too political” - again they were not holding hands, no Pride symbols (that you brought up)

2. That MAGA isn’t political?

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m saying that a certain contingent of conservatives have always been triggered about the thought that the US is not just White people and even more triggered with the thought of people of various races getting along. It’s especially prevalent in a post MAGA takeover of the Republican Party.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#844

Post by programjames »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #843
programjames wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have yet to actually reply to me and my argument. As I said earlier, you need to improve at this skill if you want to actually convince people their position is wrong.

What position is that? 1. That showing different colored hands raised with a heart in it is “too political” - again they were not holding hands, no Pride symbols (that you brought up) 2. That MAGA isn’t political? I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m saying that a certain contingent of conservatives have always been triggered about the thought that the US is not just White people and even more triggered wi…

Neither of those are my position. If you're not trying to convince me I'm wrong, that's fine, just realize that Idaho is a one-party state and the Republican Party has the power there to do what they think is right. The only way to influence that is to convince enough people that banning these posters is not right, which I thought was your goal, but I guess political commentary has its own purpose.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#845

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

programjames wrote: post #844
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What position is that? 1. That showing different colored hands raised with a heart in it is “too political” - again they were not holding hands, no Pride symbols (that you brought up) 2. That MAGA isn’t political? I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m saying that a certain contingent of conservatives have always been triggered about the thought that the US is not just White people and even more triggered wi…

Neither of those are my position. If you're not trying to convince me I'm wrong, that's fine, just realize that Idaho is a one-party state and the Republican Party has the power there to do what they think is right. The only way to influence that is to convince enough people that banning these posters is not right, which I thought was your goal, but I guess political commentary has its own purpose.

I’m the last person to try to convince racists not to be racists (referring to Idaho politicians - not you). I’ve lived an entire life ignoring them and living my best life. That’s a lost cause.

That’s like trying to convince people that a man didn’t rise from the dead after three days and the only way that he will come back to take them to heaven is if the government protects Isreal - yea that is what evangelicals think.

Hell I had a house built in an infamous “sundown town” (where the outskirts were still conservative but more traditional conservative)

Yeah this one:

https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=BpsfzQXo0HP2AXLB

And completely ignored the looks I got every time I walked out of my house.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#846

Post by typeofhuman »

typeofhuman wrote: post #533
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

Popular misconception of homeschooling. At least in my experience. We homeschool our children. We do a couple of hours a day of curriculum. The rest is being a member of a few homeschool coops. Parents are close, yet it's big enough that there are still "groups". Kids are making friends and socializing in a much more fruitful way than the chambers of public school. There's play, then there's exploration. We go on nat…

Not sure what would cause someone to downvote my post without reply. Guess they're upset about their own performance and/or that of their kids.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#847

Post by kachapopopow »

pyuser583 wrote: post #832
kachapopopow wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

teaching independent learning is also a very valuable skill, most average people can do it especially the gifted ones as long as they are given the resources to do so and general skills taught in the first 8 grades since realistically I caught up by 10th grade while being a very poor performer in the first 8 (mostly due to lack of effort and generally being very stupid as a kid). also there is very little excuse now…

AI is very bad at developing curricular materials.

that's mostly a context limitation with hallucinations sprinkled in, but they are currently good at understanding existing problems and how to solve them as long as they're not college-level or above since at that point they tend to fall apart due to complex interaction between different subjects and number percision overload esp when it comes to matricies.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#848

Post by DANmode »

jsutton wrote: post #837
DANmode wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Take a second to think through why it might be bad for a 2nd grader to seek high schoolers as social peers.

Take a second to think through why it might be great for a fourth grader to seek out college-aged people as social mentors (with the right barriers).

That was me.

With your condescending broad-speak.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#849

Post by pyuser583 »

kachapopopow wrote: post #847
pyuser583 wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is very bad at developing curricular materials.

that's mostly a context limitation with hallucinations sprinkled in, but they are currently good at understanding existing problems and how to solve them as long as they're not college-level or above since at that point they tend to fall apart due to complex interaction between different subjects and number percision overload esp when it comes to matricies.

I suspect it’s not just a context limit.

I suspect, but can’t prove, that model trainers deliberately steer models away from creating tests and worksheets.

The reason being that when a human asks a written question: “who president of the US in 1962?” it’s very likely to be a part of a worksheet.

Novels don’t contain many questions like that, nor do non fiction. They’re mostly paragraphs. Most text is mostly paragraphs.

Naked question usually means worksheet. AIs know this, so their if you ask it a question like: “who president in 1962?” It responds which the most likely next sentence, a related question: “How was the Cuban Missile resolved?”

So there’s a huge discrepancy between the next most likely sentence based on training, and what a user likely wants. If I ask, “Who was president in 1962?” I don’t want another question, nor does anyone else.

But that’s what the training data provides.

So model trainers have to bias it away from worksheets. This isn’t hard to do, and is a normal part of model training.

I’ve personally seen this behavior in poorly parameterized or trained models. They love answering questions by assuming they are in worksheets. It’s a huge pain.

Interestingly it never happens with top-line models like ChatGPT.

Carefully hyperparameterizatiin helps, but I think you’ll have to adjust the weights too. But that likely makes it harder to make actual worksheets.

This is just a guess. But I suspect models are weighted to discount pedagogical materials because of how different they are from what the users often expect.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#850

Post by yanslookup »

sparrish wrote: post #498
yanslookup wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you are Mormon, is home schooling sort of another form of virtue signaling Mormon families employ or is it more of a way to ensure your families don't get excluded? Like, did you really have a choice in the matter once you realized you either go full Mormon or leave the church entirely?

Bad assumption on your part. I'm not Mormon. Protestant Christian and most of my Christian brothers and sisters look at how many kids I have and that we homeschool and think I'm a little crazy (just like most non-Christians). I'd say probably 1/3 of the families in our church homeschool though. It's a wonderful community to be a part of and if I sent my remaining kids to public school, I wouldn't be asked to leave.

I'll take the L but it still sorta maps to where I was going with the Mormon angle.

I've been around Mormons, not a religion scholar, but it seems plausible to me the same "one upsmanship" mormons have with missions, large paternalistic families, avoiding "outsiders" (see: homeschooling), etc are common in other religious communities. Like maybe the protestant Christian one you are in?

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