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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#841

Post by oliwarner »

The comments surrounding this story feel so alien to so many outside the US.

Negotiating with a hospital caught double and triple billing and somehow being happy with a bill for four hours down to just $33k? This should have ended in litigation.

Elsewhere I see people facing $4k Ambulance rides jubilant at only paying $500. People laughing that they've already paid so many tens of thousands out of pocket that year so can't be gouged any further. And so many others just saying "Oh that's how hospital billing works" as if you've just explained how central locking works.

Guys, this isn't civilised. It's exploitative and in many cases just outright fraud. Why can't you fix it?

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#842

Post by ErroneousBosh »

15155 wrote: post #797
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This helps with the denials how exactly? You can pay a lot of money in premiums, have a $0 deductible, and now OoP maximum, and still end up having claims denied.

Do you think countries with even the most coveted universal healthcare just approve everything blindly? Should everyone (anyone?) receive monoclonal antibodies, gene therapies, biologic medications? What criteria should be used to make these determinations?

> Should everyone (anyone?) receive monoclonal antibodies, gene therapies, biologic medications? What criteria should be used to make these determinations?

Yes, if that's an indicated and effective treatment.

Do you think people should just be left to die if they can't pony up the dough in the hospital? Oh, your card's declined, no oncology ward for you?

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#843

Post by ErroneousBosh »

whimsicalism wrote: post #244
jancsika wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, my parents in the US at a hospital get a CT scan, MRI 'just in case' immediately (or close-to for the MRI) and pay nothing for it. I live in U.S. and know people on ACA Marketplace plans, employer HDHP, Medicaid, Medicare, Medicare Advantage, people who are uninsured, people who are overinsured, and people who have crazy expensive fly-me-out-of-the-jungle emergency plans (one who actually used it in the…

First, I didn't say same day and specifically caveated for the MRI. That said, the CT was either same-day or next-day, I forget which. It was for hyponatremia and was in the Washington, DC region. My primary point was comparative - wait times are considerably longer for the NHS than in the US.

> My primary point was comparative - wait times are considerably longer for the NHS than in the US.

It depends what it's for. If you want something non-urgent, you may be waiting a bit longer.

If you go to A&E you'll be seen very quickly in the UK, but unless you're lucky with which hospital you pay to get into you could be waiting quite a while in the US.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#844

Post by maroon_unperson »

ryao wrote: post #198
noir_lord wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with medical conditions from a country with universal publicly funded health care, while it may not be flawless (though in terms of actual medical treatment, no complaints either) it sure does seem to be a whole hell of a lot better than the alternative. Not once have I had a sleepless night since been diagnosed over a decade ago about insurance, co-pay or how to afford my drugs/medical treatment. I’m on t…

Are the outcomes in the US worse? Not that long ago (a couple months ago in fact), I looked at public data comparing cancer survival rates, which put the outcomes in the US at least 10% better than those in the UK. That was additive, such that a 20% survival rate in the UK for a type of cancer is at least a 30% survival rate in the US. The 10%+ better outcome in the US applied to all types of cancers for which I foun…

Cancer rates are hard to compare across countries because overdiagnosis is such a common issue.

A higher survival rate is to be expected when the doctors have a financial incentive to treat benign growths which the patient would have survived anyway. It can indicate overdiagnosis rather than indicating successful treatment.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#847

Post by throwawayffffas »

ivolimmen wrote: post #821
throwawayffffas wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European healthcare in my experience has capacity issues. Typically hospitals are overwhelmed by the sheer amount of patients. Waiting times for procedures are incredibly long. Where the system kind of shines is emergency care and long term illnesses, you go in and they save your life for free. For any other kind of treatment you are generally better off turning to the private sector in Europe. You are going to have…

Capacity issues are dependent on country. In my country (Netherlands) is it not that bad and you can easily switch Hospitals if there are queues for certain operations (that are not urgent).

Fair everywhere I have lived the system was spread thin by personell shortages, mostly driven by long hours, bad working conditions, and austerity driven budget cuts.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#848

Post by jalapenos »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #811
diob wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks are looking at the higher US comp but aren't correctly pricing in the long-term risk. You can be fine for years, but a single, major medical event can zero out those salary gains and lead directly to bankruptcy. It's a systemic flaw that isn't obvious until it's your turn to deal with it.

This is why insurance plans have out of pocket maximums. To prevent this exact issue. We can say whether those maximums are still too high (some really are), but the mechanism is there. The real issue is that most people don't have a rainy day fund to deal with such emergencies. And that they are too expensive anyway. There are 2 concepts you should always keep in mind. 1. Always avoid the hospital unless you are lit…

Your country is twisted dude

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#849

Post by kakacik »

diob wrote: post #671
magicalhippo wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative recently had their baby come several months early. The baby needed intensive care for a couple of months, and breathing support (CPAP) for another two. Mom lived at the hospital hotel for the duration. Baby got regular inspections of the heart, lungs and eyes (too much oxygen in the blood can lead to problems with the cornea or something), including after checkout. They got billed exactly zero. Both parents…

A lot of folks are looking at the higher US comp but aren't correctly pricing in the long-term risk. You can be fine for years, but a single, major medical event can zero out those salary gains and lead directly to bankruptcy. It's a systemic flaw that isn't obvious until it's your turn to deal with it.

That's the 'societal' part of living in society, sharing the risks and yes sharing the gains a bit too. I know some right wing folks see it as unnecessary burden, either they are above the financial cut or (dumbly) believe their health is and will remain stellar for rest of their lives. That tiny minority shouldn't ever decide such societal policies and shouldn't be let to do so.

Its shortsighted and plain stupid and properly selfish move. It works rather well short term if one simply doesn't give a fuck about suffering of others, but even thats shortsighted and stupid long term - we live in hyper-interconnected society and not some prepper wet dream, what goes around always comes around.

Another similar is public education, literally defining future of society. How dumb is to not have it in stellar shape, shitting on one's own kids and mankind future.

But hell will freeze sooner than majority of americans will realize and accept that. Till then, if its important enough for you, you can vote with your feet, its easier than ever.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#850

Post by washadjeffmad »

rootusrootus wrote: post #792
diob wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks are looking at the higher US comp but aren't correctly pricing in the long-term risk. You can be fine for years, but a single, major medical event can zero out those salary gains and lead directly to bankruptcy. It's a systemic flaw that isn't obvious until it's your turn to deal with it.

You can use the difference in comp to buy a Cadillac level plan with zero deductible, zero out of pocket max. You won’t be going bankrupt.

I'd much rather not have every part of my society for sale to someone with infinitely deeper pockets.

We're not the customers of healthcare, insurance, mortgages, etc. The planet's wealthiest pensioners are. No difference in comp is going to make that work out best for you.

Also, the existence of Cadillac plans implies that someone in our government doesn't believe the population at large should be receiving world-class care. It's like when Senator Biden had two cranial aneurysms, had top surgeons flown in on taxpayer dime, then fought against universal healthcare.

We're all already paying for the best healthcare in the world, just not for us.

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