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Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

841–850 of 894 posts

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not asserting a specific number. There have been between 65,000 and 680,000 gazans murdered by the idf directly and indirectly. I think it’s unlikely the number is as high as 680k, but there is absolute chaos on the ground, doctors and hospitals and records destroyed. We won’t know until the slaughter stops what number is real. If you want to let the lack of a specific number hold you up while the killing contin…

I mean sure, you are just asserting a range. It is also true that there have been between 0 and 2,000,000 gazans killed by the IDF, but this fact does not do anything useful in discussing the issue. (And just like the 680,000 gazans "murdered by the IDF" it is nearly impossible to be accurate, fabrication because it defies reality.)

Sure 0-2mil is possible, as is all the atoms in your body aligning and allowing you to step thru a wall.

But those who are well informed agree it the data supports a number above 45k, probably above 65k, and the highest estimate published is 680k. If we use a higher number we are just making shit up. If we use a lower number we are choosing to ignore a data point without a specific reason to write it off. “It defies reality” isn’t an actual reason - it’s just an assertion that it’s wrong. Neither is “wouldn’t the GMH cite higher numbers?” - how would you confirm that 1/3 of people in your city are still alive if people are scattered, communication is down, and an unknown number of people have fled?

but either way, the tens of thousands of innocents killed and the complete destruction of the infrastructure of gaza is appalling - and arguing about specific numbers is pretty pointless if we don’t agree on that.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think her statements aren’t even factual: the current estimates aren’t the confirmed identities, they include estimates for missing and presumed dead. You don’t think the GHM would publish larger estimates if 1/3 of every living person in Gaza was missing or dead? It’s hard to have an objective conversation when numbers are just made up.

I am not asserting a specific number. There have been between 65,000 and 680,000 gazans murdered by the idf directly and indirectly. I think it’s unlikely the number is as high as 680k, but there is absolute chaos on the ground, doctors and hospitals and records destroyed. We won’t know until the slaughter stops what number is real. If you want to let the lack of a specific number hold you up while the killing contin…

If you're basing this on the Lancet letter about indirect deaths, that's an estimate that includes future deaths that could be linked to past events of the war. So "have been" isn't the right tense.

It's also non-peer-reviewed, and based on rather arbitrarily picking a multiplier of 15x from a range of past conflicts' multipliers. One author described the figure as "purely illustrative" in a now-deleted tweet.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#843
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing that those numbers mean it's how many of dead combatants IDF can identify/name. if somebody killed holding RPG, he doesn't become civilian just because IDF doesn't know his name

Maybe that applied then but does it apply now? Each of their soldiers wear cameras. They see it in hd anytime their soldiers shooting women, old men, children. I guess only their snipers are getting away with dropping civilians constantly (as many British and American doctors are testifying they saw in gazan hospitals). And on top of this their drones target with visual data. So they see that too. I think in this war…

where from you got idea that each soldier wears camera ? from ukraine ? it's definitely not case in Israel.

doctors in hospital testify to something that they didn't see happening ?

and none from what you wrote contradicts that article/whatever parent posted is misleading

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#844
post #645
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Even political Zionism is minimally defined as supporting "a home for Jews in Palestine"[1] Not only does it not require any ethnic exclusivity nor even for a national identity, it doesn't even require an independent state in the contemporary sense. Some of those who identify as Zionist take it to mean only that Jews should be able to live with some form of self-determination in Palestine, and so when they hear "anti…

I read that Wikipedia link as affrming my definition of "Political Zionism"

    It focused on a Jewish home ... centred on gaining Jewish sovereignty ... and was opposed to mass migration until after sovereignty was granted
A racial state, I contend.

Definitions are only one part - apartheid is a description of what Israel has achieved, "Political Zionism" is a good candidate to describe the underlying ideology.

However you look at it, it is a catastrophe without a likely, of foreseeable, happy ending. Even the state of happiness the South Africans achieved looks elusive

It does not have to be that way. Jewish people could be secure in Israel and live in peace there, but the Israeli state seems unable and unwilling to make the compromises to bring it about.

"Justice the seed, peace the flower"

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at least 18,500 of them are children, 217 journalists, 120 academics, and 224 humanitarian aid workers From my understanding GHM numbers don't break these figures for those that are combatants either, the population overall is quite young and Hamas is known to use child soldiers as well. Journalists(along with doctors) in Gaza have even been themselves involved in holding hostages for Hamas[0]. There are many issue…

[flagged]

> who knows better than the united fucking nations

The UN is one of the organizations that is heavily responsible for perpetuating this conflict, from promoting terrorism via UNRWA schools[0] to employing terrorists[1] and those who sympathize with terrorists[2]. These[3] sort of biased UN reports in general tend to be deeply flawed and do not stand up to even basic scrutiny[4].

> thinks murdering children is ok because heyyy some of them are child soldiers. Sounds good.

Do you really think 17 year olds can't also be combatants? The Gaza(Hamas) Health Ministry last I checked counts children as anyone below the age of 18.

[0] https://www.newsweek.com/your-tax-dollars-are-being-used-tea...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/gaza-unr...

[2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-securit...

[3] https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/un-geneva-inquiry-israel-gaza-...

[4] https://unwatch.org/un-watch-rebuttal-legal-analysis-of-pill...

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously equating observing an area using satellites with indiscriminately monitoring everyone's calls, messages, and possibly hacking their devices?

Additionally, there is observation AI face tracking of all movements of Palestinians in the West Bank, who live under occupation. While other governments may also conduct monitoring of their citizens to varying degrees, the distinction is that they are monitoring citizens , not using monitoring to enforce military apartheid.

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Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#847
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same bogus website used earlier. Please don't copy pasta bad hasbara

Dismissing something as a “bogus website” or attacking the source isn’t an argument. It’s a logical fallacy.

It was debunked in another comment so I didn't copy paste the debunking, sorry

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s literally the same numbers as the posted ones, and exactly aligned with what I’m saying. > The current official toll is 64,718 Palestinians killed in Gaza and 163,859 injured, since the start of the war on 7 October 2023 You may have been misled by the headline “X killed or injured”.. those are two different things, and we’re talking about the number killed. I don’t know if those numbers are accurate (the articl…

Nice cherry-picking > Halevi stepped down as chief of staff in March after leading the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) for the first 17 months of the war, which is now approaching its second anniversary. > The retired general told a community meeting in southern Israel earlier this week that more than 10% of Gaza’s 2.2 million population had been killed or injured – “more than 200,000 people”. The point is that we know 6…

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Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, you are just asserting a range. It is also true that there have been between 0 and 2,000,000 gazans killed by the IDF, but this fact does not do anything useful in discussing the issue. (And just like the 680,000 gazans "murdered by the IDF" it is nearly impossible to be accurate, fabrication because it defies reality.)

Sure 0-2mil is possible, as is all the atoms in your body aligning and allowing you to step thru a wall. But those who are well informed agree it the data supports a number above 45k, probably above 65k, and the highest estimate published is 680k. If we use a higher number we are just making shit up. If we use a lower number we are choosing to ignore a data point without a specific reason to write it off. “It defies…

You are missing my point. To me it seems like 680k is just making shit up. Why is this reasonable? I can't even find what this "data point" is based on, so I'm not sure what I am supposedly ignoring! Just say where it is coming from, that isn't a person throwing out a random number.

I would love to be "well-informed", but how can I get there with hearsay?

> Neither is “wouldn’t the GMH cite higher numbers?” - how would you confirm that 1/3 of people in your city are still alive if people are scattered, communication is down, and an unknown number of people have fled?

Once again, the 68k figure is not confirmed! This is already an estimate. The figure for confirmed identifies is much lower, around ~35k. So this is a totally false argument. I'm not saying the estimate is wrong, I'm just saying that if there was a reason for the estimate to be 1/3 of people in Gaza, that's what they would say.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Attacking/bombing/etc without large scale surveillance would largely mean increased collateral damage. That would only be true if your goal was not to completely obliterate the population you are attacking and bombing, as Israel has demonstrated.

Since the Oct 7 attacks the Palestinian population has not shrunk. War deaths have roughly equalled births. Are you claiming that the IDF is trying their hardest to kill all the Palestinians they can, and that this is the best they can do? Really?

I'm too late to edit my previous reply, but wanted to add a few sources so here we go -

Fact checking services debunking the claim of population not shrinking since October 2023:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/dec/06/instagram-...

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/gaza-population-growth-proj...

Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics' population estimates, as of July 2025 - down 6% in one year since 2024, which is 10% below original forecasts for 2025:

https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/portals/_pcbs/PressRelease/Press_En_... (3rd section of page 2; though the whole document is worth reading)

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