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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#841

Post by fowl338 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #568
deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

No one wants public transit! I've spent a lot of time in Singapore, with literally the worlds lowest crime rates, highest trust in society, and best mass transit in the world. It costs 100K USD to get a SHITTY car, like a Toyota Prius. Everyone in Singapore is desperate to make lots of money, is desperate to buy a cool car, and is desperate to never step one foot onto the transit system again. Mass Transit is a cope…

As a dual EU-US citizen who has spent decades on each side, Western Europeans don't strike me as extremely jealous of the American way of life. Quite the opposite. But if believing that makes you feel better go ahead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#842

Post by mancerayder »

deltarholamda wrote: post #225
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

>I'm a big supporter of urbanism. I loathe the time I spend in my car, and I don't even have that far of a commute, but I have zero other options if I want to live where crime is low and the schools aren't dysfunctional. Until this is addressed, there is no argument about commuter density or efficiency of movement or anything else the proponents of public transit like to talk about that will make a lick of difference.

The post-Giuliani years were great until we started implementing an approach maybe described as "property crime enforcement leads to injustice because it's due to inequality, and moreover should be treated as a societal issue" justice system adjustment. There, spikes of menacing and assaults on public transit occurred, to the point where a disconnect became quite obvious to commuters.

The problem with this narrative is that wealthy people take black cars to drive them around, leave the city on the weekends, and ultimately don't have the day to day concerns around safety.

Add to that an interesting fact that the most progressive neighborhoods are generally the safest (with an anti-police and criminal justice reform bent) while the poorest have a pro police attitude. Here's an interactive map that lets you compare votes across neighborhoods of the different Democratic candidates in the 2021 election where we had Adams making his pro-police rhetoric center to his campaign. Look where his support trends highest: https://www.urbanresearchmaps.org/nycrcv2021/?office=mayor&c...

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#843

Post by kccqzy »

MisterTea wrote: post #635
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

I was in Spain last month and what stood out is that walkability requires mom and pop stores as well as more integrated neighborhoods with small commercial shops mixed into residential. Small shops seemed to be the majority in the city centers. The only large store I saw was a Lidl. They have largeish indoor markets that are more like a mini mall of individual shops like a butcher, produce, baker, cheese, even restau…

You go to Midtown Manhattan and you continue to find plenty of chain stores like Target. Large scale stores are fine. Just don't dedicate space to parking. If you must, use underground parking garages not surface parking lots. You can cater to lots of shoppers if you assume shoppers will walk there or take public transportation.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#844

Post by chrisco255 »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #814
potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

Thanks for the perspective. I think it's difficult for small cities like Pontevedra to create high quality jobs. There are not enough people to support rich doctors, lawyers, accountants and such. Factories can be established, but most people employed in a factory won't have a "high-quality" job. What other type of high-quality job could the city create? [1] population ~ 80k, but working population ~ 50k.

[dead]

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#845

Post by chrisco255 »

davidw wrote: post #802
potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

There are a lot of places with crappy job markets and plenty of cars. I'm thinking of southern Italy for instance. At least they put the city on the map for something positive. Better than being just another anonymous place with poor job prospects and, who knows, maybe getting some attention helps with the economy.

[dead]

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#846

Post by serial_dev »

Saline9515 wrote: post #479
panick21_ wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What nonsense. > This has the consequence of making the cost of an house (or rent) go up to a point where most people can't even afford it Except that in some of the largest cities in the world rents aren't that high. > Cars allow us to develop our society not in big cities, but in rather small towns, without ugly skyscrapers Go to Switzerland, it look like that before cars and still does. You can get affordable hous…

> Except that in some of the largest cities in the world rents aren't that high. Citation is really needed for this one. Especially if you consider Swiss real estate "affordable."

> You can get affordable houses and apartments on rail lines where you can be in the city in 15min. [1]

[1] Trust me. Blindly. Please?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#847

Post by jen20 »

jghn wrote: post #652
everdrive wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The worst argument anybody can make is "but that's just life in the big city!" A cousin was visiting us in our nice suburb. We had a slow, not-busy road we walked on when we lived there, and we'd wave to anyone; neighbors, vehicles, etc. Our cousin was sort of uncomfortable, and asked "do you know all these people?" I explained that we knew some of them but were just being polite and friendly. She explained that tha…

> (Boston) .... Why exactly would it be _dangerous_ to wave at someone in a friendly way? It's not dangerous at all to do this. It's just considered odd & borderline impolite to do that. It's hard to explain to an outsider, but you see it brought up a ton on places like r/boston. The stereotype is that people in the northeast are "kind but not nice". By and large we don't engage in frivolity like greeting random peop…

This is also true of the tube in London - if you talk to a stranger on the morning commute you may as well have peed in their backpack - the response is about the same.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#848

Post by tonyhart7 »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #814
potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

Thanks for the perspective. I think it's difficult for small cities like Pontevedra to create high quality jobs. There are not enough people to support rich doctors, lawyers, accountants and such. Factories can be established, but most people employed in a factory won't have a "high-quality" job. What other type of high-quality job could the city create? [1] population ~ 80k, but working population ~ 50k.

I mean the option is civil servant vs no jobs

having an factory literally only positive from there

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#849

Post by jen20 »

elAhmo wrote: post #533
Saline9515 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reason among others, but this bike-centric policy (pedestrians nor public transport are the priority) led to an exodus of families [0]. I am among them, as I realized pretty quickly that it's a real pain to move around, buy groceries, go to the doctor, and so on with very young children in Paris, especially if you don't own a car. And now you have to deal with the uncivil behavior of the cyclists, moreover. It…

As someone with a family and a car, can't you use public transport for that? You can walk to local parks and have a doctor that is relatively nearby, but Paris has very extensive transport network and it is perfectly fine to move around without a car. No one is arguing you should take your sick kid on a bike for one hour ride.

I doubt it. Navigating the Paris Metro (or the London Underground) with a _suitcase_ is a shit show - even in relatively new stations. Whoever decided to put stairs in St Pancras with only a lift as an alternative should be condemned to step on lego every day of the rest of their lives.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#850

Post by magicalist »

potato3732842 wrote: post #803
ericmay wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time People love driving until they're stuck in traffic, or their kid dies in a fiery car crash after being ran into by a drunk driver, or they get a flat tire, or can't afford their monthly car payment. To your point about society needing to be better, that applies generally and has nothing to do specifically with transit, walking around ou…

>>> Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time >People love driving until they're stuck in traffic, or their kid dies in a fiery car crash after being ran into by a drunk driver, or they get a flat tire, or can't afford their monthly car payment. The relative rates of these things are very, very different (as are the harms).

> The relative rates of these things are very, very different (as are the harms).

I mean, as a first approximation, about twice as many people die in car crashes than are murdered in the US every year so...

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