I'd rather read the prompt • Hacker News Board

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#841

Post by rbits » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:05 AM UTC

const_cast wrote: post #482

soerxpso wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think I'm there for the degree. If I wanted to learn and engage with material, I could save $60,000 and do that online for free, probably more efficiently. The purpose of a class writing exercise is to get the university to give me the degree, which I cannot do by actually learning the material (…

> I could save $60,000 and do that online for free, probably more efficiently. Not to burst yours or anyone else's bubble, but no, probably not. The hard part of learning isn't access to content, it's discipline and dedication. School provides structure, goals, timelines, and deliverables. The value of this cannot be understated. I've heard from many people how they're going to learn programming online and then get a…

It's presumably possible, but I feel like people might underestimate what's required. Mind you, I went to university so maybe I'm biased and don't fully understand, but I feel like the structure given by the university is very important.

If I wanted to learn JavaScript or .NET or CSS or whatever I could easily do so online. But that's different from becoming a software developer. The important thing is that university doesn't focus on one topic, it teaches a variety of topics that they think will be useful for your career. You can do this without uni, but you need to be good at figuring out what to learn, not just how. And of course the discipline to complete your goals by yourself, like you mention.

Although maybe something you could do would be to look at a university's course structure and copy it.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#842

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:06 AM UTC

expensive_news wrote: post #459

bost-ty wrote: post #4

I like the author's take: it isn't a value judgement on the individual using ChatGPT (or Gemini or whichever LLM you like this week), it's that the thought that went into making the prompt is, inevitably, more interesting/original/human than the output the LLM generates afterwards. In my experiments with LLMs for writing code, I find that the code is objectively garbage if my prompt is garbage. If I don't know what I…

I have mixed feelings. Generally I don’t think that LLM output should be used to create anything that a human is supposed to read, but I do carve out a big exception for people using LLMs for translation/writing in a second language. At the same time, however, the people who need to use an LLM for this are going to be the worst at identifying the output’s weaknesses, eg just as I couldn’t write Spanish text, I also c…

>As much as I like algorithms code is written to be read by computers and I see nothing wrong with computers writing it.

unless you're the sole contributor, code is a collaborative effort and will be reviewed by peers to make sure you don't hit any landmines at best, or ruin the codebase at worst. unless you're writing codegen itself I very much would consider writing code as if a human is going to read it.

>“I feel… humans have lost confidence“

Confidence in their fellow man? yes. As the author said a lot of this reliance on AI without proper QA comes down to "nobody cares". Or at least that mentality. And apathy is just as contagious in an environment as passion. If we lose that passion and are simply doing a task to get by and clock out, we're doomed as a species.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#843

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:12 AM UTC

_qswe wrote: post #169

palata wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the exact inverse of how I most often use AI, which is to throw a ton of information at it in a large prompt It sounds to me that you don't make the effort to absorb the information. You cherry-pick stuff that pops in your head or that you find online, throw that into an LLM and let it convince you that it created something sound. To me it confirms what the article says: it's not worth reading what you produce this…

You're making a weirdly uncharitable assumption. I'm referring to information which I largely or entirely wrote myself, or which I otherwise have proprietary access to, not which I randomly cherry-picked from scattershot Google results. Synthesizing large amounts of information into smaller more focused outputs is something LLMs happen to excel at. Doing the exact same work more slowly by hand just to prove a point t…

> deliver business value.

I think that mindet directly correlates with the kind of AI hat prompted this article: "It doesn't matter" in your eyes. You don't see the task as important, only the output and that it makes you money. the craft is less important than what you can sell it for.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#844

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #508

satisfice wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you present your AI-powered work to me, and I suspect you employed AI to do any of the heavy lifting, I will automatically discount any role you claim to have had in that work. Fairly or unfairly, people (including you) will inexorably come to see anything done with AI as ONLY done with AI, and automatically assume that anyone could have done it. In such a world, someone could write the next Harry Potter and it wi…

> In such a world, someone could write the next Harry Potter and it will be lost in a sea of one million mediocre works that roughly similar. Hidden in plain sight forever. There would no point in reading it, because it is probably the same slop I could get by writing a one paragraph prompt. It would be too expensive to discover otherwise. This has already been the case for decades. There are probably brilliant works…

>AI merely accelerates what was already happening.

I think "merely" is underselling the magnitude of effect this can have. Asset stores overnight went form "okay I need to dig hard to find something good" to outright useless as it's flooded with unusable slop. Google somehow got worse overnight for technical searches that aren't heavily quieried.

I didn't really desire such accelerations for slop, thanks. At least I could feel good knowing human made slop was learned from sometimes.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#845

Post by _qswe » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #843

_qswe wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a weirdly uncharitable assumption. I'm referring to information which I largely or entirely wrote myself, or which I otherwise have proprietary access to, not which I randomly cherry-picked from scattershot Google results. Synthesizing large amounts of information into smaller more focused outputs is something LLMs happen to excel at. Doing the exact same work more slowly by hand just to prove a point t…

> deliver business value. I think that mindet directly correlates with the kind of AI hat prompted this article: "It doesn't matter" in your eyes. You don't see the task as important, only the output and that it makes you money. the craft is less important than what you can sell it for.

They're just different use cases. There's a difference between a learning exercise and a contractual engagement to deliver a product to a client.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#846

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #263

satisfice wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you present your AI-powered work to me, and I suspect you employed AI to do any of the heavy lifting, I will automatically discount any role you claim to have had in that work. Fairly or unfairly, people (including you) will inexorably come to see anything done with AI as ONLY done with AI, and automatically assume that anyone could have done it. In such a world, someone could write the next Harry Potter and it wi…

> someone could write the next Harry Potter and it will be lost in a sea of one million mediocre works that roughly similar. To be fair, the first Harry Potter is a kinda average British boarding school story. Rowling is barely an adequate writer (and it shows badly in some of the later books). There was a reason she got rejected by so many publishers. However, Netscape was going nuts and the Internet was taking off.…

I don't really assossiate harry potter's rise with that of the internet. By the time it lit the internet ablaze was in the 2000's, after the first few movies aired.

It certainly wasn't the writing that elevated it. I think it was as simple as tapping into an audience who for once wasn't raised as some nuclear family. a Cinderella esque tale of being whisked away from abuse mixed with a hero's journey towards his inevitable clash with the very evil that set this in motion.

The movies definiely helped too. The first few were very well done with excellent child actors. Watching many other fantasy adaptations try to replicate that really shows just how the stars align into making HP a success.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#847

Post by godelski » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:32 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #832

godelski wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look back at the thread: - ebiester claimed academia made itself the gatekeeper of credentials - alpinisme suggested that was silly. Employers have autonomy - you asked why MOOC classes don't get the same credentials - I said you missed alpinisme's point. The employer is the one that is deciding those credentials are not equal. I also pointed out how the same is true about different universities. Pointing out that yo…

You realize employers are sometimes regulated by who they can hire, right? A nurse often must be licensed. An engineer who stamps designs (ie one who isn’t under an exemption) has to be licensed. One of the major steps in that process is getting an accredited degree. (Yes, there are edge cases where you may be licensed without an engineering degree, but those are so vanishingly rare as to not really be a factor). The…

You are pointing out exceptions rather than the norms. Do not cherry-pick. I'm pretty confident that most people in these threads are thinking about computer programmers, white color jobs, and blue color jobs. Things that don't obviously need a degree.

Depending on the type of nurse, you do not need a degree. Some will need to pass an exam though. You can become a lawyer without a degree, only needing to pass the BAR. An engineer doesn't need a license. You are thinking of a Professional Engineer, which is a specific job title that has legal ramifications. This requires a degree but it also requires you working under another PE for some time and then passing state competency exams.

The cases we're talking about here are jobs where if you do something wrong you can kill hundreds or thousands of people and destroy millions or billions of dollars worth of assets. *You've just completely moved the goalpost to try to make your point.*

Do you really honestly believe that these jobs shouldn't require a formal education?

I'm not going to take anyone seriously that is going to argue that medical doctors shouldn't receive formal educations. Come on, don't be dumb. Just have a normal fucking conversation. You don't have to double down and back yourself into a corner.

I know you're not that dumb, so stop bring disingenuous.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#848

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:43 AM UTC

_qswe wrote: post #845

johnnyanmac wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deliver business value. I think that mindet directly correlates with the kind of AI hat prompted this article: "It doesn't matter" in your eyes. You don't see the task as important, only the output and that it makes you money. the craft is less important than what you can sell it for.

They're just different use cases. There's a difference between a learning exercise and a contractual engagement to deliver a product to a client.

Yes, a learning exercise has a goal to extend your own knowledge. Business is, especially as of late, figuring out how to get the cheapest but still acceptable work to the recipient for the highest value. I suppose it's on the recipient for not checking the quality of their commission.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#849

Post by _qswe » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:51 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #848

_qswe wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just different use cases. There's a difference between a learning exercise and a contractual engagement to deliver a product to a client.

Yes, a learning exercise has a goal to extend your own knowledge. Business is, especially as of late, figuring out how to get the cheapest but still acceptable work to the recipient for the highest value. I suppose it's on the recipient for not checking the quality of their commission.

I'm not sure why you're randomly insinuating otherwise, but I've only received positive feedback on the quality of my work.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#850

Post by johnnyanmac » Tue, May 06, 2025, 2:53 AM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #754

EigenLord wrote: post #445

I think the answer to the professor's dismay is quite simple. Many people are in university to survive a brutal social darwinist economic system, not to learn and cultivate their minds. Only a very small handful of them were ever there to study Euler angles earnestly. The rest view it as a hoop they have to jump through to hopefully get a job that might as well be automated away by AI anyway. Also viewed from a condi…

Whose system though? I agree, it's weird for parents to say, "Jump through these hoops, and for every dollar you earn grinding sesame for some company, we'll give you an additional two." Working and educating yourself is decent and dignified, no? Is this a bad deal?

>Whose system though?

clearly the billionaires who made it so a decent job isn't even guaranteed to cover rent.