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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#841

Post by kelseyfrog »

Jensson wrote: post #838
hayst4ck wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salami slicing is the first page of the present day authoritarian play book. Here's an excerpt from They Thought They Were Free , a book about the mindset of ordinary Germans experiencing the rise of the Nazi Government: Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes,…

[flagged]

Just wait until you get to the part of the They Thought They Were Free where it mentions over-reacting. That strategy doesn't work.

There is no moment of egregious violation. It never comes. Even when the state is clearly totalitarian there were Germans holding out hope that Germany would lose the war. As if that was their final straw.

The salami is purposefully sliced thin enough that one slice on it's own will never provoke enough outrage. How do you hope to oppose that?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#842

Post by sanderjd »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #616
sanderjd wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis is that immigrants have no constitutional rights because they aren't citizens, or the stronger form, that they are invaders and thus enemy combatants. The Supreme Court is going to have to clarify the existence or non-existence of constitutional rights for people living here unlawfully. And then the populace is going to have to make sure that the president doesn't conclude that he can ignore that ruling if…

Is that a serious thesis anyone serious is entertaining ? Would that mean that you can defraud or kill a tourist with no consequences?

I mean I don't know if you consider the president of the United States "serious" (I certainly don't), but this is clearly his thesis.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#844

Post by crote »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #475
kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

What is the purpose of laws if they are willfully ignored? Where do you draw the line? If the police don't care about someone's immigration status, why should they care about who broke into your car?

Should a serial killer go unpunished because its sole witness would face lifetime imprisonment for jaywalking if they were to testify? Do you believe gangs should roam free due to a lack of evidence, or would it be better if they could be rolled up by offering a too-sweet-to-ignore plea deal to a snitch?

Laws are are already routinely being ignored. There's a massive amount of discretionary choice space for law enforcement and prosecution. It's not as black-and-white as you're making it sound.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#845

Post by Jensson »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #841
Jensson wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just wait until you get to the part of the They Thought They Were Free where it mentions over-reacting. That strategy doesn't work. There is no moment of egregious violation. It never comes. Even when the state is clearly totalitarian there were Germans holding out hope that Germany would lose the war. As if that was their final straw. The salami is purposefully sliced thin enough that one slice on it's own will neve…

So did the over-reactions work? If they didn't then why double down on a losing strategy?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#846

Post by c_exclu »

hayst4ck wrote: post #781
lolinder wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…

This is the constitutional crisis. You are taking ICE's/the administration's perspective and assuming it is cogent which leads you to conclusion that doesn't support justice and instead supports the end of constitutional rule in the US. The administration is in open violation of supreme court rulings and the law. They have repeatedly shown contempt for the constitution. They have repeatedly assumed their own supremac…

[flagged]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#849

Post by hayst4ck »

Jensson wrote: post #838
hayst4ck wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salami slicing is the first page of the present day authoritarian play book. Here's an excerpt from They Thought They Were Free , a book about the mindset of ordinary Germans experiencing the rise of the Nazi Government: Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes,…

[flagged]

Infighting is how liberalism loses. While we sit and deliberate on whether this is the slice that merits actions, they are making plans to arrest more judges.

The point of that excerpt is that there is not and likely will never be one single unifying objectionable action that provokes people into acting and we will slow walk our way into atrocity through inaction.

The argument being made is that it will continually get worse every single day. Every action will slowly become more egregious. A judge arrested politically, but for cause, today will be a judge arrested without cause tomorrow, but we will have adapted to see judges being arrested for blatantly political reasons as a new norm.

The facts and nuance will change faster than we can adapt and while we pontificate on whether this is the one that's worth it, the next bad thing will have already happened. More power will have been consolidated.

Taking in the truth requires action, so anything that lets people stay in denial or bury their heads is clung to in order to protect mental health. Eventually it will be too late, and you will wonder when you should have acted knowing you are no longer able to.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#850

Post by belorn »

hayst4ck wrote: post #781
lolinder wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…

This is the constitutional crisis. You are taking ICE's/the administration's perspective and assuming it is cogent which leads you to conclusion that doesn't support justice and instead supports the end of constitutional rule in the US. The administration is in open violation of supreme court rulings and the law. They have repeatedly shown contempt for the constitution. They have repeatedly assumed their own supremac…

> America is being confronted with a very serious problem. What happens when those responsible for enforcing the law break it or start enforcing "alternative" law? If the police are breaking the law, then there is no law, there is only power. Law is just words on paper without enforcement.

The world has a concept that fits that description and it is a civil war. People pick up arms, a lot of people get killed, several generations end up in cycles of violence.

That is what happen when there is no law, only power, and people act on it.

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