Live data from Hacker News

Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

841–850 of 875 posts

Re: Pope Francis has died

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's not just about the in practice Latin suppression and the pretense it's not happening. My reply is primarily about Church growth and the importance of fellowship. Wherever you go, don't imagine this sentiment is American/Western only as many have claimed/alluded. If Christ doesn't change you nothing really has changed. Proselytizing by active action and being examples by our (different/changed post convers…

There are many opinions about proselytism, eg: The approach of some recently arrived evangelists has been slammed by some Aboriginal leaders, including Labor senator Pat Dodson. "They are a type of virus that has really got no credibility," he said. "If they really understood the gospel then the gospel is about liberation. "It's about an accommodation of the diversity and differences that we have in our belief system…

This isn't relevant here.

I don't know if I should bother pointing out why.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia: Yasser Arafat[a] (4 or 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), also popularly known by his kunya Abu Ammar,[b] was a Palestinian political leader

Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. He was born there and his tribe is there. He's as Palestinian as every Turk or Houthi. It's public knowledge. Also Wikipedia is known for it's progressive stance. Can't trust it for anything that intersects with culture war issues where everything is a conspiracy.

You can probably trust Wikipedia when it says that Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt to Palestinian parents.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#843
post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

People who want to join the church prefer Latin Mass which he's opposed to. His proclamation on blessing LGBT people caused a rift with the Church in Africa (remember why we have Anglicans as part of the Catholic Church?) threatening an area that's seeing church growth. He's also had his mouth closed about the killings of Catholics in Africa and Asia by extremists.

The Latin ship sailed 6 decades ago... There's no going back without pissing off everyone else, assuming it's indeed true new members would prefer Latin - if you have a source about that, I'd be really interested in reading it.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. He was born there and his tribe is there. He's as Palestinian as every Turk or Houthi. It's public knowledge. Also Wikipedia is known for it's progressive stance. Can't trust it for anything that intersects with culture war issues where everything is a conspiracy.

You can probably trust Wikipedia when it says that Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt to Palestinian parents.

[deleted]

Re: Pope Francis has died

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia: Yasser Arafat[a] (4 or 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), also popularly known by his kunya Abu Ammar,[b] was a Palestinian political leader

Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. He was born there and his tribe is there. He's as Palestinian as every Turk or Houthi. It's public knowledge. Also Wikipedia is known for it's progressive stance. Can't trust it for anything that intersects with culture war issues where everything is a conspiracy.

He was Palestinian. It's public knowledge. Secondly, let's say he's from Mars, does that maean the rest of the millions of Palestinians are also all Martians? LOL

Re: Pope Francis has died

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia: Yasser Arafat[a] (4 or 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), also popularly known by his kunya Abu Ammar,[b] was a Palestinian political leader

Yasser Arafat was Egyptian. He was born there and his tribe is there. He's as Palestinian as every Turk or Houthi. It's public knowledge. Also Wikipedia is known for it's progressive stance. Can't trust it for anything that intersects with culture war issues where everything is a conspiracy.

I'm sure I'm misreading you; you didn't intend to say you can't trust Wikipedia because it doesn't indulge conspiracy theories, but I'm having a hard time understanding your meaning in any other form. Can you clarify?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#848
post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It can't make more sense to believe in one entirely made up thing vs another since they're both made up. It makes sense to believe in Newton's laws, which he made up, even though we know the study of kinematics flowing from them is wrong. We have observed them being wrong. Someone else made up a complicated explanation of why and when Newton's laws are wrong. That guy's theories formed the basis for some incredible…

Yeah, sure, Newton "made up" the laws. Good one. For anyone curious, this is an example of the Continuum Fallacy [1]. Interestingly, that wiki page happens to use Newton's laws as an example: "For example, Newton's gravitational theories are "wrong" (they're a rough approximation) and Einstein's gravitation is almost certainly "wrong" too (it doesn't easily blend with quantum mechanics), but it would be a spectacular…

This is not an example of the 'Continuum fallacy', but you believe it so because you are thoroughly convinced that religious thinking is vacuous.

Unless you are denying Newton's agency or participation, he made those laws up. That's how articulation of reality works.

When you make a strong binary conjecture, you invite counterproof. You object to the wording because you find it beneath the dignity of those laws to label it so; on that point, we agree.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, SSPX is a thing. I’ve never been to one of their chapels myself, though there is one here in St. Louis and some folks who now attend the local oratory run by the ICKSP used to be regulars there. As a group, they seem to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder (irregular communion and all that), which has not been my experience with the ICKSP and FSSP, who are in full communion with the local bishops and Rome, ev…

Regarding obscurantism, I don't know how one gets around that observation. It's striking to me that even many TLM celebrants aren't fluent in the language. You know why you're going and you seem to have a good reason for it, and I respect that. I think the rap on the TLM is that, in addition to reasonable people like yourself, it also attracts a lot of whackjobs, some of whom have unfortunately included priests. I'd…

When I was in high school ('91-95), I had quite a few friends involved in band and other music programs at the public school we attended. One of those programs was "choir", though it wasn't affiliated with a church, of course, because it was a public school. I remember being amazed at their performances of polyphonic music from the 16th Century, Palestrina and the like – my parents never played recordings of music like that at home and I had not heard it elsewhere. As a kid I was curious about most everything, and I found it interesting but puzzling that some of those musical pieces were described as parts of a Mass – "what does that mean? can you explain the context, I don't get it?" My family was Catholic, but I grew up in a predominantly Protestant area of the country (eastern Tennessee); neither Catholic nor Protestant adults that I talked to could provide a clear explanation and I didn't know the the music teachers so didn't ask them. I looked up what I could in printed encyclopedias, but it was a jumble to me, and it wasn't until years later that I acquired a bigger picture.

All around the world, there exists (or survives, sometimes only in parts) beautiful art and architecture and music that, with a little examination, is directly connected to the Latin Rite as it was celebrated for centuries. You can't really get the full picture of why those things are the way they are without knowledge of the classical Latin Rite. Likewise, a study of the Latin Rite on paper would be impoverished without knowledge of the historical cultural developments and artistic treasures that enriched it over the centuries.

"Rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary heritage, distinguished according to peoples' culture and historical circumstances, that finds expression in each autonomous church's way of living the faith." — according to the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (28 §1)[1]

It is remarkable that in the Western Church we have passed through a period from the mid 20th Century during which so much of our Latin Rite heritage has been ignored, forgotten, even tossed aside or rent violently. The term wreckovation[2] is used, and it's pretty accurate though it causes some to bristle.

The TLM movement is, in many respects, about recovering our Western Catholic heritage. That's not accomplished in equal measure everywhere, but the most vibrant communities around it place an emphasis on sacred music, restoring art and architecture as circumstances allow, and educating — catechizing is probably the better term — ourselves and our children so those efforts aren't merely about appearances or performance art, but an integral part of loving and worshipping God as we look to rebuild local Catholic culture.

So "obscurantism"? No, rather traditional expressions of the Catholic Faith given new sails (sometimes the winds are a bit stormy, to be sure). Some of us are learning Latin as we go along — the ordinary parts of the Mass are easy to pick up, and if you're coming from the Novus Ordo you already know what they mean even if you don't fully understand the Latin grammar. Certainly the priests of the ICKSP and FSSP study Latin in their seminaries, and many homeschooling families I know have Latin in their kids' curriculums. It's pretty amazing how quickly little kids pick it up when they participate in choir or serve as altar boys.

I want to provide one more response re: the SSPX/Williamson and whackjobs stuff, but I've already blown my HN comments time-budget today, so it will have to wait.

[1] https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_constit...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreckovation

> I hope my "it's complicated" gives me some cover from the idea that I'm a folk-group C&E Catholic just looking to dunk on some tradcaths. I mean, I may be that too; it's complicated.

I don't take offense, Dominus vobiscum.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their purpose is not to start artistic movements or liberally think for themselves and no one is claiming it is. your "spark of ingenuity" is not lacking because of some issue or lack of creativity, it's lacking because it's not the point and no one wants it to be. There are plenty of people/communities online that want it to be exactly that and want to remove the pesky human element from the equation. Dismissing the…

point to them

I see you are unable to point to them
Post reply on HN