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Googler... ex-Googler

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Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#841

Post by int_19h »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #821
PaulHoule wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a few years back when it seemed anyone who (1) had a pulse and (2) had rumors circulating that they might be a software developer got a contact from an AMZN recruiter about once a month if not sooner. It was frequent to have somebody complain on HN about how they could not get an interview with FAANG and I'd say "you really haven't gotten interviews with AMZN" and of course they were getting interviews wit…

I once wrote a reply email to an Amazon recruiter saying effectively, "If Amazon were the last software company left on earth, I would rather become a carpenter than work there. Please never ask me to interview there again." Anyhow a couple years later I got called by a recruiter from Amazon asking me if I'd be willing to relocate to work there.

I had a similar experience with Facebook, although my email was much more aggressive (this was when their recruiter contacted me right after I got tripped by one of their UX dark patterns in a way that translated to real world harm). I kept getting invites until I put a clear statement expressing my desire to never ever work for Facebook into my LinkedIn profile

FWIW I think it's because recruiters at most companies are effectively contractors and don't have access to all history of communications.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#842

Post by int_19h »

sgerenser wrote: post #787
ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " I started hearing about Microsoft doing the security-escorts-you-straight-out-the-door all the way back in 2012. " Are you sure about that? Microsoft's 2014 layoffs, which were large enough to be reported in the tech press, let employees keep network and building access until the actual layoff date.

Can confirm as well, was laid off from Microsoft in 2023, and I kept access for about a week and a half (and then was paid for an additional 60 days after that, but no longer had access to anything, this was just the WARN period).

Same thing for people just leaving. I left in 2024, and my login and everything around it kept working until my announced leave date (and I gave more than a month notice).

I do recall stories of people getting escorted out, but this was from 00s.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#843

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

I wonder if there is some megacorp regression to the mean going on here. Google holds itself up as somehow special, and I think that it's right to be cynical about that today. I also think there was a golden age of sorts, back when real-world distributed systems were much more fringe, and Google was a legitimate trailblazer. Then, the spreadsheet number crunchers come in, and the elves leave Middle Earth[1].

[1]: In reference to this famous essay: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear...

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#844

Post by int_19h »

InitialBP wrote: post #453
yodsanklai wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to work for another US company again if I can help it You can work for a US company in the UE. They have to follow the local rules like anybody else.

A company that has to "follow the rules" is way less desirable to work for then a company that embraces the spirit of the rules. I'm in the US so can't really speak for companies in other countries, but many US companies are doing everything they can to skirt the letter of the law and spending a ton of money to have them rewritten to be less favorable to employees and more favorable to the business. Finding a company…

It's a fundamental problem with large organizations.

In principle, an organization that is built on reciprocal loyalty is more productive than one that treats people as interchangeable cogs, because people are individually happier and go to greater lengths to achieve the shared goals, making them more productive. However, this arrangement can only be built on trust, and trust doesn't scale well past the Dunbar number. Thus, spirit of the rules is replaced by letter of the rules (which can be meaningfully enforced).

Thus, the larger the bureaucracy, the more soulless it is even in individual interactions between people within it, and the more it treats those people as interchangeable cogs that are there solely to serve the overall function of the organization. If the organization is a for-profit corporation, its overall function is profit, and thus megacorps always tend to optimize squeezing their employees.

Short-term this can be reversed somewhat if leadership is concentrated and opinionated. E.g. when the company grows out of a startup dominated by a single founder, and that founder has certain ethical standards or beliefs that they enforce on the org, overriding the natural tendency. This arrangement never lasts long-term, though - either the founder goes away and is replaced by generic management which has neither the desire nor the capacity to go against the current, or the founder becomes corrupt.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#845

Post by bitbasher »

beacon294 wrote: post #833
bitbasher wrote: post #684

I was laid off (as a founding engineer) nine years ago from a startup. It __still__ burns to this day. There's a betrayal in there that is hard to let go. It was a catalyst for burnout and an overall vitriol for the entire tech industry that hasn't really let up to this day. Luckily, I created a product that has given me financial freedom with zero employees. I don't think I'd have made it if I kept working for peopl…

Have you written anywhere about your product creation? I would like to create a product and it seems like there's a lot of unique things to get past. I'm looking for resources.

I have written about technical things (how I choose technologies, what to avoid, reasons I went from language X to Y, etc).

I never had any interesting social interactions from the blog/writing and the internal pressure to keep it updated eventually wore me out, so I got rid of the blog.

I have considered distilling everything into a book, complete with a working application. I'm more interested in the technical aspects and I am unsure if it would be of much interest/use to people.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#846

Post by int_19h »

scarface_74 wrote: post #375
Scandiravian wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a higher monthly salary in the US, sure. However, you're expected to work very long hours (60-80 hours per week) and get basically no time off In my current position I'm hired for an expected 37 hours per week. This can be more if I'm asked to work overtime, but my weekly hours cannot exceed 45 hours per week on average in a 3 month window without additional compensation Additionally I have six weeks of paid…

I have never in 28 years across 10 jobs including one in BigTech been “expected” to work more than 40 hours a week. It’s a bunch of copium thinking that American tech workers are working 60-80 hour weeks. And I know it’s not the norm, but right now I have “unlimited PTO” and most people take at least 5 weeks a year. If the average American tech worker is making 2x - 4x the average EU worker, they should be able to sa…

"Unlimited PTO" is discretionary in practice, and there are studies showing that it translates to less PTO on average, which is exactly why companies do it.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#847

Post by int_19h »

perching_aix wrote: post #271
wiseowise wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weird, as someone from Europe I've never experience anything else. As someone from Europe, I’ve never experienced US salaries. Go figure.

You probably never experienced their working hours either.

FWIW in my 15 years of experience working in big tech in US, I never had a job in which there was an expectation of doing more than 40 hours, working weekends etc.

Such things definitely exist, but they are far less common than is often implied here on HN and elsewhere. I think this is largely because people who don't work long hours are much less likely to wax poetic about it, just because, well, it's not at all unusual or interesting.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#848

Post by int_19h »

astrange wrote: post #794
weatherlite wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jee sounds like a swell arrangement for 20% of the population ...

More like 80%. Americans are simply richer than Europeans.

80% of Americans are definitely not on what I'd consider a "good healthcare plan".

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#849

Post by int_19h »

scarface_74 wrote: post #809
grudg3 wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking "Human resources" a bit too literally.

We are resources. The one Big Tech company I have worked for has 1.556 million employees. What else was I besides a “resource”?

It's not a binary between "we are family" and "we are resources", it's a spectrum.

In your case, yes, you were absolutely a resource. This is exactly why companies of that size simply shouldn't exist - because they cannot not treat their employees as resources, with all the inhumanity this implies.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#850

Post by whall6 »

strix_varius wrote: post #840
Workaccount2 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter was the experiment. Elon showed up and started cutting headcount left and right. People were even encouraged to just walk out. On paper this was supposed to lead to the immanent collapse of it's service. That didn't happen and instead every other tech CEO started to wonder about the amount of fat in their org.

Twitter generated $5bn in revenue in 2021. Since Musk bought it, it's been on a rapid decline. In 2024 it generated $2.5bn in revenue... 50% of its pre-Musk numbers (46% with inflation)! Worse, it continues to trend downward. Most sane tech CEOs would prefer to keep their upward trend and $5+ billion revenue rather than saving $1 billion to lose $2.5 billion and invert their slope.

Remarkably - it’s more profitable now.

Also, most layoffs don’t cause huge cuts to advertising spend on their platform because of personal spite or political reasons. The product for all intents and purposes as an advertiser is the exact same.

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