Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#841

Post by teractiveodular » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 11:15 PM UTC

trod123 wrote: post #805

teractiveodular wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a great depression No, it's not even close. Unemployment in 1933 was 25%.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Unemployment calculations from data recorded during that time have since changed. The same unemployment numbers are not the same mathematical objects being compared. At this point, we can never know the true scope of unemployment to make any comparison definitively, because the measurements no longer accurately collect the necessary information for such a comparison. You don't see…

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. I am saying that you can't extrapolate from 70% of IT people in your circles being unemployed to the entire economy imploding Great Depression style.

Even in IT circles, it's still better out there than it was during the GFC (2009, 10% US unemployment), and way better than it was after the dot-com bust (2000, <6% overall unemployment, but much, much higher in IT).

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#842

Post by insane_dreamer » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 11:38 PM UTC

christianqchung wrote: post #721

insane_dreamer wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've drunk the hegemony koolaid, my friend.

Your lack of a substantive reply is extremely telling.

Is it now?

I could argue each point but am not inclined to do so, since it's clear the author believes we _should_ have a hegemony, whereas I'm coming from the view that maintaining a hegemony, whereby we have become a de-facto militaristic nation fed by a never-ending state of conflict and never-ending drum-beating of militaristic patriotism ("support our troops!" everywhere you go), at the expense of caring for our own citizens and striving for a healthy, educated and more equal society, is an egregiously misplaced sense of priorities. And there are too many people in this country who have drunk the koolaid relentlessly fed us that it is _imperative_ to maintain such misplaced priorities in order to remain "free" (whatever that means).

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#843

Post by qeternity » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 11:52 PM UTC

Draiken wrote: post #302

qeternity wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get why layoffs mean that the company was not managed correctly. Let's say you believe you have an opportunity that will double the value of the company, with a 30% probability, or cost the company 10% of it's value. This means it has an expected value of +21%. This is pretty good, and exactly the sort of thing shareholders want from their management. So you increase headcount and pursue the opportunit…

When they hire as part of the push for that 30% chance, are they telling them that they have a 70% chance of being laid-off if the bet doesn't pay out? If it's "just a bet" and not mismanagement, then we should tell people that, shouldn't we? The reality is that these bets are only bets for the people getting hired/laid off, and they don't even know they are betting in the first place. Even worse because we're not ta…

I don't know the answer to this, but I don't think it really matters.

Employees have responsibility to due diligence their employers.

But at the end of the day, employment is at will. It's a risk we all take.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#844

Post by kyleee » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 12:04 AM UTC

butz wrote: post #585

Any easy to migrate to alternative to Dropbox? I don't mind paying, but Linux support and light sync client is a must. And I don't need more than 1GB storage.

Nextcloud if you don’t mind a mediocre piece of PHP software. It syncs files well for me, but a lot of the other apps are clunky and perpetually half finished (calendar, photos, etc.) but with some elbow grease I find it usable.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#845

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 12:30 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #728

pc86 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should also be some reasonable government provided safety net There is, it's called Medicaid.

That's not really a solution. You have to be broke to use Medicaid. They expect you to fully drain all your assets first. I shouldn't have to sell my house to get medical care.

I'd give you that, but in exchange, you'll have to agree that, if I'm renting, I shouldn't have to sell any financial assets less than, say, the median value of a house where I am.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#846

Post by Aurornis » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 12:36 AM UTC

TechDebtDevin wrote: post #496

steveBK123 wrote: post #380

Very generous severance packages and companies/laders should be commended for this. If it's a one-and-done big cut with generous packages to save the company, then good on them. Somehow overhiring and maintaining said headcount long enough to need to do a 20% cut is probably less commendable, but not exactly an outlier there in the current climate. I've always wondered about all these standalone "point solution" comp…

Severence is only so they can dodge regulatory scrutiny. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and was a line-item in the burden category for those employees when they were hired.

That might be true if they were doing bare minimum severance packages, but they’re not. They’re doing substantial packages.

Claiming that it’s to please regulators when it’s far and away better than the average severance package is an irrational claim.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#847

Post by DrillShopper » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #560

DrillShopper wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do those metrics count "number of people laid off" explicitly? We know they do implicitly because laying off people makes the company more profitable, but is there any penalty for killing jobs? If not, shouldn't there be?

No, I dont think there should be a penalty by default. The objective of a company isnt and shouldn't be to run a charity. Some amount of layoffs are desirable just as a matter of housekeeping. Layoffs can be a hard part of doing a good job. I think there are extreme examples and tactics where layoffs cross a moral line but not a legal line. for example, I think the humane thing to do is freeze hiring before layoffs s…

> Layoffs can be a hard part of doing a good job.

Yeah firing people is so tiring - might have to skip my tee time!/s

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#848

Post by madhacker » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 2:03 AM UTC

Lack of accountability and personal responsibility is made possible by tolerance for corporate impunity, which thrives in America.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#849

Post by csomar » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 2:11 AM UTC

ironmagma wrote: post #686

desbo wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that someone's response to being fired should be the same as a manager's response to one of their reports quitting is hilariously out of touch.

It kind of ignores the core asymmetry of capitalism, that those with the capital are the ones with the power. Nobody can do a background check on a company to see who they laid off or fired before they work there.

You can do a background check. That’s not where the asymmetry is, though. The pandemic checks have showed that the asymmetry can be flipped but then almost everyone working low-tier (flipping burgers) will quit his work. The Fed has then decided to re-enslave these people. Someone gotta take the garbage.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#850

Post by csomar » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 2:12 AM UTC

not_your_vase wrote: post #608

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> high tech salaries Are they really high? They are not that different from UPS driver salaries. Just the other day I clicked on the website of some random law firm's career page. I wasn't happy with what I saw (in the context of my own career). Some researchers with 1 year of experience with starting salary of 450k+... tech salaries look high as long as you don't check other professions.

They are not high. But most companies have business leadership who sees software developers as annoying and weird nerds. Explains why they are spending all their money on compute so that they can replace them with machines once and for all.