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'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#841

Post by bevekspldnw »

NomDePlum wrote: post #789

Never thought I'd even consider this, but is this a case where those involved, producing and developing, this software should be tried for murder/crimes against humanity? My understanding is that AI in it's current form is not an applicable technology to be anywhere near this type of use. Again my understanding: Inference models by their very nature are largely non-deterministic, in terms of being able to evaluate ac…

It’s amply clear from reporting that the IDF has no formal RoE on the ground - low level commanders have full autonomy to kill whomever, whenever, with zero oversight.

The “AI” exists to retcon the justification for any particular genocidal act, but this is really just an old school mindless slaughter driven by anger and racism.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#842

Post by cess11 »

solardev wrote: post #552
cess11 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when you put a computer in front of the judges at the ICC?

They ask an assistant for help? Run it through some panel of experts and demand algorithm changes? Send it to some Judge API and get back some JSON? I dunno, what? They're not exactly very good at preventing or punishing human atrocities, either... it's more of a symbolic group, or a tool of the victors, than anything resembling actual justice. I'd argue textbook authors have more of a lasting ethical impact than the…

Every decision by the ICC ends up in textbooks, so maybe you've misjudged its importance?

You should move your questions one step up in the thread, I'm not the one saying it might be better to let computers design or commit atrocities.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#843

Post by submeta »

There are two dimensions of horror here: One is that we as a tech community are building systems that are able to automatically kill human beings. It’s not only this system. I‘ve seen images of drones with sniper guns shooting everyone moving: Kids, women, innocent men. Drones flying constantly humming above the heads of Palestinians, always observing them. The feeling that death can come anytime. What a f-ing nightmare. Can we in the west even imagine what life that is?

The second is this: Why is a western ally allowed to have Apartheid, allowed to kill thousands of women and children with or without AI, besiege (medieval style) 2.3mil civilians, starve and dehydrate them to death, all the while comparing a tiny area without war planes, without a standing military, without statehood to Nazi Germany and Gaza to Dresden to completely level Gaza? To Nazi Germany that had the most advanced technology of their time, threatening the whole world? Dehumanising Palestinians by declaring them all „terrorists“, mocking their dead, mutilated bodies in Telegram groups with 125k Israelis (imagine 4mil US citizens in a group mocking other nations dead children). Why do we allow this to happen? Why is a western ally allowed to do this while almost all our western governments fund and support this and silence protest against it?

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#845

Post by yonisto »

mmustapic wrote: post #617
KingMob wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can one do when criminals have embedded them self in the civilian population? Why don't they get out and meet the police on the battle field? We wouldn't tolerate a SWAT team blowing up a hospital if the mafia had taken over the basement, I have no idea why you think this is acceptable. > It is much better than the carpet bombing used by other nations. It is exactly like the carpet bombing used by other nation…

Would Israel blow an israeli hospital if Hamas took the basement?

If they would take just the basement that would be unnecessary, but they took everything up to the roof.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#846

Post by Aerroon »

rdtsc wrote: post #430
Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

> Everyone else is a civilian that can only be directly targeted when and for as long as they directly participate in hostilities, such as by taking up arms, planning military operations, laying down mines, etc. There is some incredible magic that often happens: as soon as anyone is targeted and killed, they immediately transform from civilians to "collaborators", "terrorists", "militants" etc. Of course everything i…

Another one is when you label any 15+ year old male as "military age" and treat them as combatants.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#847

Post by worldsavior »

This article tries to hint that Israel is doing a genocide at Gaza, which is not true.

I'm not sure what is wrong with this technology. They barely say at the achievements this technology has gained, and only speaking about the bad side.

This article tries to make you think behind the scenes that Israel is a technology advanced, strong country, and Gaza are poor people whom did nothing.

It didn't even speak about the big 7 October massacre, where tens or even a hundreds innocent women were raped, because they were Israelis. I'm not sure when this kind of behavior is accepted in any way, and it makes you think that Hamas is not a legit organization, but just barbaric monsters.

Be sure that Gaza civilians support the massacre, and a survey reports that 72% of the Palestinians support the massacre[1], spoiler: it's much higher.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-b...

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#848

Post by smt88 »

ofiryanai wrote: post #837
smt88 wrote: post #21

I know many people won't read past the headline, but please try to. This is the second paragraph: "In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called Lavender, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict."

They permitted larger numbers of civilians being killed in the pursuit of terrorist barbarics who raped and murdered and dragged babies with their mothers into underground dungeons, and praised themselves for that while hiding between civilians.

Why did the civilians deserve to die because of what the terrorists did?

If this is about the hostages, why hasn't Israel agreed to more ceasefires to save them?

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#849

Post by Nemo_bis »

tombert wrote: post #523
Nemo_bis wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold of you to assume they won't boast about it...

I'm pretty sure this company is pretty apolitical and would like to stay out of the discussion entirely.

Sure. They'll do it by using seemingly neutral language to mask reality, like "a world leader in fast delivery uses our software to automate its prospects generation and evaluation".

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#850

Post by cess11 »

surfingdino wrote: post #305
Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

It always starts with making a list of targets that meet given criteria. Once you have the list its use changes from categorisation to demonisation -> surveillance -> denial of rights -> deportations -> killing. Early use of computers by Germans during WW2 included making and processing of lists of people who ought to be sent to concentration camps. The only difference today is that we are able to capture more data a…

IBM decided who was jewish, roma, socialist, and so on? IBM:s machines found these people and brought them to the attention of genocidal authorities?
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