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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#841

Post by silverquiet »

toasterlovin wrote: post #837
silverquiet wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you start spending a lot of time around sincerely religious people who you like, you’ll end up believing sincerely yourself Interestingly, this is what turned me into an atheist at a rather young age. A friend invited me to a childrens' religious/social group wherein they explained that most science is actually incorrect; the earth is only 6000 years old, evolution is a lie created by the evil Darwin... that sort o…

Yeah, you thought they were idiots and formed antibodies against their belief system. But there are sophisticated religious people. And IMO sophisticated religious people are much more likely to have pondered deeply the ineffability of existence and accepted that it is incomprehensible except by faith. Whereas atheists just want to point out that it can’t be turtles all the way down and then become suddenly disintere…

Oh, I got the academic, Jesuit-style teaching from my Catholic church and the decade or so of CCD I was compelled to attend as well. I actually spent years thinking rather deeply about it, but that doesn't mean it stuck - I suppose some of us just aren't capable of believing.

You do remind me of one of my favorite Douglas Adams quotes though:

> “Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.”

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#842

Post by thijson »

pkolaczk wrote: post #276
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Not owning a house is not a reason people don’t have kids. After WW II the birth rates in Poland were crazy high despite obviously huge problems with housing - often 2 families had to live in one small 2-room apartment (not a house). Now most people own or can afford to rent yet the birthrate plummeted. The primary reason for low birth rate is availability of cheap and effective contraception (and cultural changes th…

I agree, evolution works over thousands of generations. We're still only a few generations from the invention of birth control. We still do a lot of things that used to lead to reproduction, but today lead nowhere. Another thing I've noticed is that women tend to prefer a guy of higher social economic status. But if she has done a lot of schooling, and has a good job, the pool of eligible bachelors is much smaller. Guys are much more willing to marry down.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#843

Post by FalconSensei »

bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Exactly. And also: childcare. Here in Canada, you may have to wait 4~5 years to get childcare, and it's very expensive (and you have to pay to enter the wailist). People even joke that your kid is going to be working by the time they get a spot

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#844

Post by selimthegrim »

throw_siblings wrote: post #821
toasterlovin wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be religious, right? This is the dream for us. We reverted to Catholicism after it became apparent that the secular world was incompatible with us, then eventually found our way to a high fertility parish. It’s incredible. Kids everywhere. Average family size is 5-6 kids. Really hoping our kids choose to remain in this lifestyle and we get to enjoy dozens of grandkids.

Err, yeah I'm a little skeptical of parents who want lots of children. I'm in my twenties now, but I was raised Catholic, I have twelve siblings, and I was homeschooled until my senior year. There were several issues: - Me and my siblings all feel like our parents loved the "identity" of being parents and having lots of children, but when it came down to the brass tax of actually caring for our emotional needs, they…

*brass tacks, but I like this take on it too

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#845

Post by brewdad »

vintermann wrote: post #592
silisili wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they can. People are just too selfish and think of kids as costing lattes and ruining their free time. Believe it or not, kids don't have to be expensive as reports have you believe. They can go to public school, wear hand me downs or walmart clothes, and eat what would have been leftovers. Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for n…

You are just as selfish as your friends. You just have a different idea about what life you want (and also probably higher income, I bet). Would you have another kid if you knew it would make your current kid significantly worse off? It's the same argument as that, except that you count the spouse as part of the equation. If you make conscious choices to keep having kids even though 1. You don't need them to help on…

No.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#846

Post by toasterlovin »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #718
toasterlovin wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I initially read this comment to mean “we wanted larger family, the secular world doesn’t do that, we became religious and we’re happy”. Am I understanding that correctly? Kinda. We were open to believing in God. But the start of our journey was just realizing the secular world had nothing to offer us. Then we met a religious homeschooling family w/ 5 kids and they gave us a glimpse of what was possible. So we star…

That’s awesome. I have good news and bad news — my family is extremely Christian, we were missionaries to Turkey for ten years, I’ve converted people, etc. It is a very close community, and I do think the community aspect will just keep getting better for you. At the same time, different people will feel differently about what truth is. I’m agnostic now, because I feel like I would be lying to my family if I said I s…

Thanks for your perspective. It's all a grand experiment. Maybe you'll see a thread on here in 30 years about how it all turned out.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#847

Post by KptMarchewa »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #535
silverquiet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It baffles me. Frankly, I never really got why people wanted children in the first place, so this turnabout is amusing. Perhaps you can ask some of these people that you are close with as to their reasoning.

For me, I consider bringing a new human life into existence to be one of the most net positive things a human being can do. It's also one of the most reliably net positive things. Economists have very roughly estimated the value of a human life at around $10,000,000 these days, and there are reasons to suspect this is a vast underestimate for my kids in particular. The total cost to me as a parent to rear this golden…

100k? In many places, just an additional room for child alone would be that much.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#848

Post by Amezarak »

tedajax wrote: post #649
christophilus wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents had three kids while living on a single salary that put us below into the poverty line for the first half of my childhood. I had a very happy childhood. Everything I had (even my underwear!) was a handmedown. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s possible. It’s a matter of priorities. I’m glad my parents made the hard choices they did.

The point is people watched their parents struggle to raise kids and decide they aren't going to do that to themselves or their hypothetical kids. There is more to do in a life than work and raise children.

This is the reason that we tell ourselves, but it isn't the reason why we stop having kids. If it were, the human race would have died out millenia ago.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#849

Post by toasterlovin »

throw_siblings wrote: post #821
toasterlovin wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be religious, right? This is the dream for us. We reverted to Catholicism after it became apparent that the secular world was incompatible with us, then eventually found our way to a high fertility parish. It’s incredible. Kids everywhere. Average family size is 5-6 kids. Really hoping our kids choose to remain in this lifestyle and we get to enjoy dozens of grandkids.

Err, yeah I'm a little skeptical of parents who want lots of children. I'm in my twenties now, but I was raised Catholic, I have twelve siblings, and I was homeschooled until my senior year. There were several issues: - Me and my siblings all feel like our parents loved the "identity" of being parents and having lots of children, but when it came down to the brass tax of actually caring for our emotional needs, they…

Yeah, that's def not our plan (nor is it even possible at this point). But, for what it's worth, I don't see many families with > 6-7 kids, so I think your notion of what is meant by "want a lot of kids" is skewed by your experience.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#850

Post by pinkmuffinere »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #840
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer. I really appreciate this view, but certainly some people do have a problem with it. I think it would be especially awkward if you spend a significant amount of your life there, raise kids, etc, but never claim the religion is true. It almost sounds like a cringe-comedy movie

If your values and actions align with the religious community, and you're okay being around people who are religious/spiritual, I believe it can be mutually beneficial. If your values and actions don't align with the religious community, then you should still be accepted, but if you don't have belief, then it's unlikely you'll stay for long. ^ note: by "should" I mean that, at least in my view, a "real" Christian sho…

Absolutely agree with everything you said. The biblical Jesus sets a high standard that is impossible to live up to. Even though I don’t believe now, I love people that try to live to that standard, and I aspire to as well
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