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Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

theguardian.com

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Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#841

Post by Aerbil313 »

dang wrote: post #659
zo1 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly Dang, just from casual browsing and happening across your "dont do this" responses, it does seem like you chaotically jump in. I can't discern a specific pattern, other than it being a bit too quick on the draw. But that's maybe just me being more okay with flamey discussions.

This is probably because applying the site guidelines involves interpretation, both of the guidelines and of the comments they apply to. Everyone interprets these things differently. I'm not too concerned when people disagree about particular moderation calls, since that's inevitable, especially in borderline cases. I am more concerned that people understand the underlying principles and try to abide by them.

To be honest this is a unique type of moderation I haven't seen elsewhere. The site owner (or head-moderator?) himself publicly engaging with and spending time and effort on a disbehaving commenter puts a different spin on things when you are on the receiving end. I mean this is very effective, for persuading both the commenter and the bystanders witnessing the situation to behave accordingly to the site guidelines.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#842

Post by drawkward »

lovelyviking wrote: post #833
drawkward wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, a soverign Israel "from the river to the sea" was a founding tenet of Israel's Likud party, of which Netanyahu is a member. It is no longer an explicit goal of Likud.

Can you as well describe and remind us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

The argument at hand is whether or not the phrase "from the river to the sea" is a de facto statement of support for Jewish genocide.

What is your point?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#843

Post by sudosysgen »

itsoktocry wrote: post #839
sudosysgen wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is greatly complicated by the fact that Israel materially supported Hamas and saw it as useful. Ultimately Israelis don't have to suffer serious attacks from Hamas. Hamas doesn't have that power, militarily - only gross incompetence from the IDF allows that kind of attack. On the other hand, Israel is not facing good geopolitical headwinds. As Yemen demonstrated, they are extremely vulnerable to a blockade. One…

> in the not so distant future, the US won't be able to intercept all the missiles of Israel's enemies on its behalf, and Israel will have to contend with the threat of a total blockade. The US + Israel + allies can/will absolutely level these countries if necessary. Both history and current events demonstrate that. Do you really think they are at the mercy of what Yemen does?

Life is not a video game. The US and Saudi Arabia already spent 7 years trying to level Yemen to stop them from firing cruise missiles everywhere in the region, and failed. The US didn't managed to stop Iraq from launching ballistic missiles until over a year after the decision to invade was made, and now look at Iraq right now, various militias are still firing missiles at US military bases and getting away with it.

Yemen is just a proxy of Iran, ultimately, and the US has already lost multiple proxy wars against Iran. Invading Iran itself is not a workable proposition, either.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#844

Post by cm2012 »

cogman10 wrote: post #237
cm2012 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Any examples of this? That hasn't been my experience but that may just be the communities I frequent.

Here's a good one from Twitter:

https://x.com/hgmeryem/status/1739710696693125432?s=20

I see posts like that all the time.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#845

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

lovelyviking wrote: post #832
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" is that in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0] Greater Israel, extending from the river to the sea, with the Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now. 0. This is a typical map. The only indication that there is any Palest…

>The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" … The irony is to talk about the irony without realising the extreme nature of the phrase “From the river to the sea…” for any of the sides. Someone can as easily adapt the same phrase for calls to remove non-jewish population from the land yet the commentator felt the urge to see the irony in “banning the phrase” (as he put it) without thinking through th…

> Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that.

Almost every map in that Quora answer shows Israel extending from the river to the sea, and shows the Palestinian territories as belonging to Israel.

> Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there.

As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing.

There was actually a dispute between the Tel Aviv school system and the national government recently, because Tel Aviv schools wanted to mark the Palestinian territories on school maps, which the national government tried to forbid. It's standard in Israel to depict everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea as part of Israel.

> PLO does not have any color for Israel in fact. The logo is currently on the official PLO web site.

The PLO recognizes the state of Israel, and has done so for more than 30 years. Israel does not recognize the state of Palestine, and the Israeli government says that it will never allow the creation of a Palestinian state. You're making a big deal about the PLO logo, but it's just a historic logo that hasn't been changed, and it does not reflect the PLO's position. The PLO recognizes Israel and only wants the internationally recognized Palestinian territories.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#846

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

JamesBarney wrote: post #830
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very difficult to make an argument that Israel wasn't threatened, existentially, or that its actions were motivated by anything other than self-defense. I don't think it's difficult at all. The force that Egypt moved into the Sinai peninsula was far too small to invade Israel, and in internal Israeli government discussions, they don't seem to have viewed Egypt as an imminent military threat. > The motte is the…

I'm not aware of anyone who is familiar with the situation who think that a 1 state solution is viable. If you can point to any essays or blog posts where someone lays out, how you get the Israelis to agree with it and how you keep the 1 state from devolving into a brutal civil war I'd love to read it. The 1 state solution turns a Palestinian self determination and Israeli security issues into an existential issue fo…

Most people familiar with the situation recognize that a two-state solution is no longer viable, if it ever even was in the first place. Israeli settlement of the West Bank and East Jerusalem have made it impossible to create a viable Palestinian state, and there is very little political will in Israel to enact a two-state solution.

The one-state solution has already been implemented by the Israeli government. There is one state that rules everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea. It's called Israel. Israel has ruled that territory for 56 years, which is most of Israel's existence. There is no indication that Israel will give up that territory in the foreseeable future.

The only realistic question now is whether the one state that exists will become a full democracy, or whether it will continue to disenfranchise 40% of its population. Continuing to pay empty lip service to the two-state solution 20 years after the "peace process" died is just useless.

As for how to get the Israelis to agree to finally enfranchise the Palestinians, I think that will take external pressure. Israel has been able to maintain the status quo so long because it has unconditional American backing. If that backing is removed, Israel will be in a very different and much more difficult situation.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#847

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

lovelyviking wrote: post #833
drawkward wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, a soverign Israel "from the river to the sea" was a founding tenet of Israel's Likud party, of which Netanyahu is a member. It is no longer an explicit goal of Likud.

Can you as well describe and remind us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago, and its goal is to establish a Palestinian state only in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

This is in contrast to Israel, which has never officially recognized a Palestinian right to self-determination.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#848

Post by tptacek »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #846
JamesBarney wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of anyone who is familiar with the situation who think that a 1 state solution is viable. If you can point to any essays or blog posts where someone lays out, how you get the Israelis to agree with it and how you keep the 1 state from devolving into a brutal civil war I'd love to read it. The 1 state solution turns a Palestinian self determination and Israeli security issues into an existential issue fo…

Most people familiar with the situation recognize that a two-state solution is no longer viable, if it ever even was in the first place. Israeli settlement of the West Bank and East Jerusalem have made it impossible to create a viable Palestinian state, and there is very little political will in Israel to enact a two-state solution. The one-state solution has already been implemented by the Israeli government. There…

We could spin wildly off into philosophizing here, but I responded to a narrow point made upthread, and you in turn responded to that post. To sum it up:

* The untenable position the Palestinians are in today stems at least in part to the results of the Six-Day War, wherein Egypt ultimately conceded its administration of Gaza --- in which Palestinians were not full Egyptians --- to Israel, and Jordan conceded the West Bank, which it had annexed after the Arab-Israeli war. That's what Rayiner was referring to upthread --- what happened "56 years ago" was the Six-Day War.

* The Six-Day War may have had multiple causes, and perhaps nobody's hands are clean in it, but it seems beyond dispute that the "preemptive" strike against Egypt was a response to months of military provocation by Syria and, especially, Egypt, both of whom had mobilized on Israel's border, arranged the expulsion of peacekeepers, violated Israeli airspace, and blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba, an act Nasser acknowledged made war inevitable.

* Had the Six-Day War (and then the Yom Kippur war, which was, like the Arab-Israeli war that preceded the Six-Day War, unquestionably a war of aggression by a coalition of Arab states against Israel) not happened, the cause of Palestine would be directed instead at/against Egypt and Jordan.

* "From the river to the sea" implies, among other things, the dispossession of Israeli Jewish people outside the West Bank and Gaza.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#849

Post by cm2012 »

pydry wrote: post #277
cm2012 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

i've been seeing a fair amount of pro genocide / racist material on the israeli side, not so much on the pro palestinian side. The closest is seeing "from the river to the sea" creatively misinterpreted.

Here you go: https://x.com/hgmeryem/status/1739710696693125432?s=20

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#850

Post by selimthegrim »

filoleg wrote: post #664
slim wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is after colonization

Are you sure? Here is a direct quote: > Islam had been at war with the Jewish people since its defining inception in 627 when Mohammad exterminated the Jews of Mecca and launched the Islamic conquest that swept north and subsumed Syria-Palestina. For centuries, Jews and Christians in Arab lands were allowed to exist as dhimmis, second-class citizens with limited religious rights. These restrictions were enforced by t…

Edwin Black is usually quite good so I’m disappointed in him here for focusing on the Banu Qurayza and ignoring the Banu Qaynuqa (and furthermore conflating Mecca with Medina)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qaynuqa

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