I wish GPT4 had never happened • Hacker News Board

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#841

Post by Zababa » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #617

surgical_fire wrote: post #156

Funny thing - I've been using ChatGPT as a programming assistant. My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. It often generates code that won't compile or won't run correctly, but that sort of goes in the correct direction, enough that I can spot the blunders and refine my questions. Quite often I even learn a few new things when using it to explore libraries and f…

AI is a ratchet. It doesn't die, or retire, or change careers. Once it's good at something, it stays good. Once it gets better at something, it stays better. (If not, the model is disposed of without pity or remorse.) Right now, it may make you better at your job. But your very use of it is training it to do your job. It seems to me that if AI is currently helpful to you, it is likely to eventually replace you. And m…

I think the question is, how fast can it get better? You could apply the same reasoning that you did to compilers, and some people probably lost their jobs, while others grew along with them. Compilers have been improving for a while. If AI grows as the same rate as compilers, I won't worry much. It's if/when it starts growing 10/100 times faster that things will get very serious.

Speaking about that, do you have any suggestions? I'm very early in my career, and have never experienced big transformations, huge layoff, large crisis. I guess one of the ways is regulation/unions/stuff like that, but I also don't know much about it. I'd be happy to hear how other people prepare themselves for possible industry disruption.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#842

Post by ChatGTP » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 9:55 PM UTC

zamnos wrote: post #772

simonh wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

The fact that USA's brand of late-stage capitalism is even considered capitalism is an even more damning indictment of our education system. Somewhere between Feudalism and Karl Marx, Adam Smith is spinning in his grave. How much we don't have capitalism and are living, globally, under an oligopoly, replete with robber barons in tech clothes; one can only laugh at. The amount of misery under "capitalism" says there's…

I’d say this AI and all those that follow are children of capitalism.

It’s all about consolidating power and wealth as quickly as possible. Now we’re in an AI arms race. Sounds terrifying? It is.

America might tear itself apart if it doesn’t slow down a bit. Right now, there’s no one behind the wheel.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#843

Post by sn9 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

ricksunny wrote: post #148

"...has a bachelor’s degree in Biotechnology and works as biomedical data curator. Her job is to go through scientific papers that publish RNA sequencing data. She understands the design of the experiment and cleans and annotates the data accordingly... Her work requires just enough domain expertise that it is been non-trivial to automate (until now). I think you know where this is headed. The day I got off the GPT4…

The problem/solution is that you use ChatGPT to help you write a script/program that can do the transformation for you.

You can test and audit and understand such an artifact and trust that it works.

So the problem for the people depending on this work for income or to get their start in an industry remains.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#844

Post by ChatGTP » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:06 PM UTC

s__s wrote: post #732

HealthNeed wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "take it seriously" mean? For me, taking it seriously means that I am trying to use it as multiplier to be better at my own job. Is there some better course of action you think we should be taking? I personally do not think it is going anywhere, so I figure I had better be the expert.

“Take it seriously” to me means that I’m using AI to be more productive while simultaneously preparing for a future where I can house and feed my family without relying on being employed as a knowledge worker. What exactly that looks like, I’m still not certain. > so I figure I had better be the expert Be an expert at what? Prompting AI to do things? There will be little to no expertise needed in the future as these…

My problem is that without some legislation in place, there is no stoping this

In 10-20 years it will be robots with guns patrolling food production and distribution so you won’t even be able to steal a loaf of bread for your family.

I’m actually really concerned that if a more equal system doesn’t come soon. Many, many people will suffer very badly.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#845

Post by nullsense » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #807

smikhanov wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can be fully certain of this, but I suspect all the way up to 100%

I wonder why people endlessly argue how much they should tax the rich and the poor, there is only one answer: 100% of everything, i.e wealth, income, gifts etc. It's a nice round number and everybody is taxed fairly.

North Korea called, it wants it's ideology back.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#846

Post by breck » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

adwn wrote: post #695

breck wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: open source. Open source has proved itself to be vastly superior to closed source development models. It does not generate obscene wealth disparities though—and some see that as a bug.

> Yes: open source. Open source is not an economic system in the sense in which this term is generally used. > Open source has proved itself to be vastly superior to closed source development models. "Superior" by which metric?

> Open source is not an economic system in the sense in which this term is generally used.

We should move to a society where we look at software engineers as we look at road builders. City workers build roads, the people use those roads. Likewise, engineers build software, the people use said software. Our current system of (c)opywrong is bizarre and unnatural.

> "Superior" by which metric?

Well, I'm responding to your comment using an open source operating system running an open source web browser on an open source platform and you will likely read it on the same. I still use a handful of closed source products (Sublime Text comes to mind) but that's the exception, rather than the rule. This is vastly different from 25 years ago.

In the long run, licenses are for losers.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#847

Post by simonh » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #840

simonh wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

The fact that you jump straight to Communism (without having the balls to openly say it) when nobody even mentioned it, that's a damning indictment of your education system. Or religious doctrine, I should say. Ever thought that maybe Capitalism is just a small step in human history and that we can definitely do better? I wonder what happened to innovation, is it fine only as long as it doesn't threaten the status qu…

There are loads of other economic systems. Feudalism, oligarchy, tribal pastoralism, you name it.

I was mainly thinking in terms of critiquing the idea that value is created by labour, since HyperSane mentioned it twice in comments.

It happens that the labour theory of value in central to Marx but it’s not exclusive to him. Adam Smith indulged a lesser form of it in one of his uncharacteristic slip ups in economic theory. However it is in Marx that it achieves its most vertiginous heights of absurdity, and through his disciples that the most damage was done by it.

There is a direct causal line from the LTV and some of the direst economic disasters in human history. The most egregious case, despite some strong rival examples in Soviet Russia, is probably Mao’s Great Leap Forward which among other things fetishised steel production. Production creates value and steel is the most important economic product, so everybody should make steel.

It’s the damage the LTV caused itself that I was talking about. Communism is a political project associated with it but not directly what I had in mind.

As for innovation, I’m all for it. Capitalism maximises individual freedom by putting ownership of capital and rights of self determination of labour directly into the hands of citizens. By maximising individual economic freedom it maximises opportunities for economic innovation. This is why free market capitalist economies are so creative and dynamic.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#848

Post by ChatGTP » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #181

jzb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great. It’s also not going to happen without a massive uprising. The people profiting off automation have zero intent of sharing the wealth and every intent of hoarding it.

To over-simplify, revolutions happen when young men get bored, gather into mobs to entertain themselves, and then somebody with a cause directs that mob into action. The standard way to prevent revolutions is to channel the energy of young men into a productive job and a family. But today, bored young men entertain themselves with video games etc rather than gathering in mobs to entertain themselves. We don't have la…

Except when there are robot armies, you won’t be able to protest anymore, you will do what your told or be eliminated.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#849

Post by nullsense » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:19 PM UTC

zamnos wrote: post #772

simonh wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

The fact that USA's brand of late-stage capitalism is even considered capitalism is an even more damning indictment of our education system. Somewhere between Feudalism and Karl Marx, Adam Smith is spinning in his grave. How much we don't have capitalism and are living, globally, under an oligopoly, replete with robber barons in tech clothes; one can only laugh at. The amount of misery under "capitalism" says there's…

>The amount of misery under "capitalism" says there's got to be a better way.

I'm not quite sure why people think that a misery free world ought to be possible and/or the default.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#850

Post by zdbrandon » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 10:21 PM UTC

ruddyrabbit wrote: post #826

smikhanov wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can be fully certain of this, but I suspect all the way up to 100%

Agreed. After all, that is the equivalent rate for all work done in the commons, on free software for example. Zero dollars earned, but somehow the incentive is still there. Money is not the only thing that motivates human beings.

Sure this works for creative endeavors. Now what would motivate someone to pick fruit in the summer Sun? Or clean toilets in a corporate office?

Sure you could say, "there are some people who just enjoy picking fruit." But are there enough people to satisfy the demand? And even if there are, what do you do with them as that demand decreases? The people who love picking fruit will have to clean toilets.