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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#841

Post by fennecfoxy »

grogenaut wrote: post #193
catiopatio wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you joking? We were absolutely not “virulently” anti- anyone on early IRC. We didn’t even have real names or photos. Nobody had any idea who was behind the keyboard, and that was okay.

Yet the n-bomb, gay and b*tch and other words as a universal slur and negative adjective were everywhere on irc. Casual rape references were constant, it was about as bad as Xbox voice chat. I have trouble going back and reading much of bash.org's top 100 due to the things you're claiming didn't exist. http://bash.org/?99060 http://bash.org/?5775 http://bash.org/?23601 Just because you didn't mean it or it didn't bot…

Tbh there are communities that refuse to stop using homophobic slurs, especially the rap community with which the black community is heavily involved (see T.I. defending Dababy's homophobic rant "If Lil Nas X can kick his shit in peace… so should DaBaby" ie if people can be gay then people should be able to be homophobic). Pretty despicable considering these people likely have incredibly personal experiences with being victims of x-isms.

Realistically it shows that we (humans) still have much to learn about treating each other equally. Why can't we just be good to each other. :/

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#842

Post by throwaway894345 »

abbiebe89 wrote: post #838
throwaway894345 wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to litigate your comments with the moderators, I'm just giving you a friendly heads-up that I don't think the mods will agree with you (and the fact that you've been throttled suggests you've probably been warned by the mods before). I'm also not sure they'll take kindly to creating throwaway accounts for the purpose of circumventing the rate limit, but I'll let them speak for themselves.

[dead]

Criticizing DEI programs (as the parent was clearly doing) isn't "spouting bigotry". You can certainly challenge bigotry on this site without violating the site guidelines (and "challenging bigotry" is hardly unpopular here).

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#843

Post by fennecfoxy »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #356
drstewart wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low ranking based on what? Are you telling people what feelings they should have towards slurs directed towards them? The "top quotes" don't bother me at all, for example.

Low ranking based on the number of votes they got. That's the green (or red) number in parentheses between the plus and minus signs. The top 100 quotes range from 9,000 to 41,000. If I refresh random a few times, the most common number of votes seems to be in the mid-100s, which is exactly where these fall. So the fact that - you had to search to find a couple low ranking quotes that might be insulting to white peopl…

Votes are skewed because the demographic is skewed. But the sentiments remain the same in all groups.

Just because one group speaks loudly about hate doesn't mean the quiet group doesn't hate. But it doesn't mean they do, either.

It's a complex topic that would require considerable research, rather than all parties skimming.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#844

Post by abbiebe89 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #842
abbiebe89 wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

Criticizing DEI programs (as the parent was clearly doing) isn't "spouting bigotry". You can certainly challenge bigotry on this site without violating the site guidelines (and "challenging bigotry" is hardly unpopular here).

[dead]

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#845

Post by ejstronge »

DrThunder wrote: post #806
ejstronge wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was being very charitable - it seems you are asserting knowledge of Dr. King's canon of work based on your memory of a very meme-ified quote. I also requested information about how the US used to treat racial equity better in the past; do you have any such evidence? > Explain to me how making everything equitable and inclusive for specific class oppressed poc isn't basing things on skin color vs. merit? This is a l…

"Dr. King's canon of work based on your memory of a very meme-ified quote" It's part of his most famous speech which follows the same line of thinking throughout... nice try with the gaslighting though. "One of the best pitchers in baseball history never had a chance to play in his prime. Why? Because of an accident of his genetics." Absolutely not, he missed out on playing because people back then decided to base hi…

> It's part of his most famous speech which follows the same line of thinking throughout... nice try with the gaslighting though.

You're still side-stepping my line of questioning. This is like reading a module name and assuming you understand the code.

> Absolutely not, he missed out on playing because people back then decided to base hiring off of skin color (white skin) instead of basing it off of merit (pitching skill).

This is just you trying to contort my argument to fit your perspective. I wish you luck learning anything that doesn't match your opinions.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#846

Post by zamalek »

zamalek wrote: post #556
dbrueck wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You, as a white person, have been a victim of racism? Have I been told to leave somewhere because they don't want "whiteys" there? Yes. Have I been yelled at for being a "honky"? Yes. Have I been told things like, "all white people are ___"? Yes. Have I been in a group when someone said, "don't give any to the white kid" ? Yes. Have I been threatened with violence with the sole given reason being that I am white? Y…

> Have I been told to leave somewhere [...] Why do some black people hate white people? Because their great grandparent perished on a cotton plantation, because their friend was hunted by some white folks in a truck, because their friend was choked to death by a white policeman, because your race is targeted by disenfranchisement. Why do some white people hate black people? Because they hate black people. There is a…

I won't be paying any more attention to this thread. I have evidently engaged in a fool's errand. If you continue to disagree with me and my learned viewpoint (I once believed that my police brutality experience was racism) then it is likely my fault for not being able to adequately convey this viewpoint. I can't see a way for me to express it any other way, so this discussion is pointless.

I have gone from your current viewpoint to my current viewpoint, because I was wrong. I won't be changing my mind to what I used to believe, now that I understand just how wrong I was.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#847

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

goatlover wrote: post #717
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I wouldn't link anything Thomas Sowell has written. He has literally claimed that Black Americans were better off during slavery than they are today [1]. > America is one of the least racist places overall in recorded history [citation needed] [1] - https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/thomas-sowell-on-the-legacy-o...

He doesn't say that in the article you linked. Sowel's argument is against the liberal policies of the past 30+ years compared to post-slavery economic growth among blacks prior to that. You can dispute his claims, but nowhere does he say that blacks were better off under slavery. He's claiming they were better off after slavery and before the modern welfare state, which as a conservative he views as destructive to t…

You've repeated the point I was trying to make about Sowell's viewpoint. Thank you:

> He's claiming they were better off after slavery and before the modern welfare state, which as a conservative he views as destructive to the nuclear family and produces a sense of victimhood.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#848

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

PathOfEclipse wrote: post #672
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I wouldn't link anything Thomas Sowell has written. He has literally claimed that Black Americans were better off during slavery than they are today [1]. > America is one of the least racist places overall in recorded history [citation needed] [1] - https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/thomas-sowell-on-the-legacy-o...

Personally, I wouldn't blatantly tell obvious lies. I clicked on the link. Sowell didn't say that at all. But I have to admit, that's a new one. Falsely claim someone said something awful, then provide a link to make it look legitimate. It's a pretty vile and disgusting tactic, honestly. But that's what I've come to expect from people of a certain political persuasion. Anyways, I'll continue to link Sowell. I suggest…

Don't do this here, I'm not trying to start a flame war over solipsism

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#849

Post by ejstronge »

ejstronge wrote: post #845
DrThunder wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dr. King's canon of work based on your memory of a very meme-ified quote" It's part of his most famous speech which follows the same line of thinking throughout... nice try with the gaslighting though. "One of the best pitchers in baseball history never had a chance to play in his prime. Why? Because of an accident of his genetics." Absolutely not, he missed out on playing because people back then decided to base hi…

> It's part of his most famous speech which follows the same line of thinking throughout... nice try with the gaslighting though. You're still side-stepping my line of questioning. This is like reading a module name and assuming you understand the code. > Absolutely not, he missed out on playing because people back then decided to base hiring off of skin color (white skin) instead of basing it off of merit (pitching…

Just for your reference, here is another Martin Luther King quote. I encourage you to read more of an author's work before quoting in the future:

From Why We Can't Wait : "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

---

Some more to help bolster your MLK canon:

*In 1965 the writer Alex Haley interviewed King for an interview that ran in Playboy Magazine. Haley asks him about an employment program to help "20,000,000 Negroes." After expressing his approval for it, King estimates that such a program would cost $50 billion.

Haley then asks: "Do you feel it's fair to request a multibillion-dollar program of preferential treatment for the Negro, or for any other minority group?"

King: "I do indeed. Can any fair-minded citizen deny that the Negro has been deprived? Few people reflect that for two centuries the Negro was enslaved, and robbed of any wages--potential accrued wealth which would have been the legacy of his descendants. All of America's wealth today could not adequately compensate its Negroes for his centuries of exploitation and humiliation. It is an economic fact that a program such as I propose would certainly cost far less than any computation of two centuries of unpaid wages plus accumulated interest. In any case, I do not intend that this program of economic aid should apply only to the Negro; it should benefit the disadvantaged of all races."*

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#850

Post by LordDragonfang »

DrThunder wrote: post #798
supercheetah wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your description of intersectionality is the exact opposite of what it is. It's entire purpose is to show everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins. It's too show that everyone's struggles don't fit into neat little boxes that define them, and show that social problems are multidimensional that don't have simple solutions, and shows that a lot of DEI initiatives are superficial…

"everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins" Except reality has proven you wrong. We've never lived in a time where people are more well fed, have more personal belongings, longer life spans etc. It is in fact, objectively, not a pointless game.

"operation Olympics" is pretty clearly an autocorrect typo of "oppression Olympics", which makes this response kind of a non-sequitor.
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