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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#841

Post by inetknght »

cbo100 wrote: post #461
calderknight wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a major burden to accept cash? Am I really tracked when I pay in cash? Should this really be far down the list of privacy concerns? My debit cards record every single transaction I make with them. Anybody motivated enough could find out exactly where, when, and what I buy. Seems like a pretty major privacy concern.

> Is it really a major burden to accept cash? It means somebody has to go to the bank each day to drop off the cash and collect change. So it's inconvenient, and an unnecessary security risk to whichever staff member is required to do that. Compared to not accepting cash and not having to deal with any of that, then yes it's a major burden.

> It means somebody has to go to the bank each day to drop off the cash and collect change.

So... just like the past few hundreds years then.

> So it's inconvenient

So is taking out the trash. But are you going to complain about the janitor who gets paid to do it?

> and an unnecessary security risk to whichever staff member is required to do that.

Is it really so unnecessary? Moreover, is dealing with money ever not considered a security risk?

> Compared to not accepting cash and not having to deal with any of that, then yes it's a major burden.

Even not accepting cash is a security risk. Do you deal with your computer infrastructure? Card skimmers? What about cameras that take pictures of card information while being slid across the scanner? How do you deal with the security audits of the backend software? What about the background checks of the people who wrote the backend software?

You're falsely painting a rose garden. It's just a different garden, that's all.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#842

Post by ethbr0 »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #834
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Keep in mind that a far more pernicious and rather evil system is that of the donation receiving “non-profit”. It has over time been exposed and highlighted at various points, but I don’t think it has really at all penetrated the consciousness of the general public as to what a vast majority of “non-profits are, borderline con-jobs; and that’s being generous. I won’t go into explaining and outlining exactly why that…

Non-profit are required to file financial disclosures, available via the IRS. https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/

You're looking for Lines 15-17 in Part I of Form 990.

The information's trivially available, if you're concerned.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#843

Post by inetknght »

kelnos wrote: post #633
inetknght wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Credit cards have quite a bit of protection on them. "Quite a bit" is not the same as "to my satisfaction when traveling"

"Quite a bit" is a lot better than "it's gone forever without any recourse", which is the "protection level" of cash.

It's even worse: I've spent time on the phone with banks trying to get my money back without any effect. I wouldn't have spent that time if I'd spent cash in the first place.

"It's gone forever without any recourse" certainly isn't exclusive to cash. And it can be expensive to even try.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#844

Post by ryanbrunner »

larrysalibra wrote: post #747
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Former American here...grew up in Ohio but haven't lived in the country for a while (2007). When did coffee shops in the US start asking for tips? It must be a relatively new thing. Never saw tips asked for at coffee shops when visiting until the ipad checkout thing (square?) appeared. Is it a nationwide thing now or just confined to certain regions (coastal metro areas?)?

I'm from Ontario, Canada, which has a similar but maybe not exact tipping culture.

Tipping at nicer coffee places (i.e. where they offer espresso-based drinks to order) has been a thing for a very, very long time. I can't recall ever not seeing a tip jar and have been going to places like that for probably 25 years, although if you told me the expectation was stronger nowadays that wouldn't surprise me.

The low end places (Tim Horton's up here, I guess Dunkin Donuts would be the comparison), don't expect tips or put out jars / enable them on their terminals, but Tim Horton's has always had a charity jar at the counter anyway so I would think most people would prefer that one.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#845

Post by nicolas_t »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #611
robomartin wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US Well, context is important. Right? If someone opened a "tips required" coffee shop in Japan, it could be something to watch and learn from. I don't generally have a problem with tipping. Still, I would much rather people get paid well, with whatever that cost might be reflected in the price of what you are buying. If, on the other hand, tipping is on the…

> If someone opened a "tips required" coffee shop in Japan, it could be something to watch and learn from. Not for a long time. It would likely fold within weeks.

It could work if it's a novelty bar with only foreign staff that advertises itself as American and insist on replicating the US culture.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#846

Post by karmelapple »

qqtt wrote: post #573
4gotunameagain wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Caffe Nero is a chain in the Boston area (and elsewhere) which has no tipping when using a credit card. Most locations have a tip jar for cash, bud no option to tip. It certainly helps me think that they’re getting paid a decent wage since they’re not prompting me to tip automatically. And the employees generally seem happy, and payment goes faster since there’s no stuttering and thinking over the tip step.

The same simple credit card machines are used at Qdoba, but there they ask for a tip, even when coming in to get a bowl and doing takeout. Not unreasonable, but the difference in experience and expectation is pretty wild: coffee sometimes takes as long as it does to put a burrito bowl together, yet one expects a tip and one does not.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#847

Post by ryanbrunner »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #704
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Are tips tax favourable? Because if not then replace $4 coffee and $1 tip with $5 coffee and just pay the staff more.

Customers will tend to be price sensitive more to the listed price than the actual price they pay, particularly when it comes to tips since they're "choosing" to give the tip.

This would earn you the reputation of being especially expensive, even if customers aren't actually paying you more.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#848

Post by hooby »

courgette wrote: post #816
hooby wrote: post #751

In some countries like afaik Japan, it's customary to NOT tip and actually leaving a tip might be seen as an insult - as if you tried to insinuate they aren't paying their employees enough. I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips. Without those tips, many job offers in the service industry would not be attractive, as they don't pay enough t…

It’s a US and Canada thing. I’m 40ish and I gave a type twice in my life in France. Both were exceptional situations were I felt that the normal compensation was not enough and I felt bad for the worker. And even then.. I might have been influenced in my reaction by a long period spend in the US.

Not necessarily only US and Canada.

Support for tipping is actually a much requested feature for the payment software of the company I'm working for, especially with customers from the restaurant business. I don't know though, which of the EU-countries we serve drive most of those requests. I suspect Germany, Austria and maybe Poland?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#849

Post by beanjuice »

karmelapple wrote: post #846
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Caffe Nero is a chain in the Boston area (and elsewhere) which has no tipping when using a credit card. Most locations have a tip jar for cash, bud no option to tip. It certainly helps me think that they’re getting paid a decent wage since they’re not prompting me to tip automatically. And the employees generally seem happy, and payment goes faster since there’s no stuttering and thinking over the tip step. The same…

Cafe Nero is a European chain, centered in London [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_Nero

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#850

Post by wetpaws »

eslaught wrote: post #323

I recently saw a "3% cost of living" charge at a restaurant (in California). This same restaurant provided suggested tips of 18, 20, and (I think) 25%. At a certain level I think this is just dishonesty. They want to raise prices, but they know some people will stop coming, so they try to hide it in extra fees instead. I don't mind tipping per se, but the hidden fees and tip inflation make me think that if this keeps…

I routinely tip 0% at places that practice this
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