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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#841

Post by [deleted] »

biztos wrote: post #631
Teandw wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'." This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Not sure it makes sense to say that such a law that effects a tiny number of individuals is penalizing everyone.

In some parts of the EU, it’s still pretty common to do the down payment of a private real estate transaction in cash, and that can easily exceed €10K. I’ve done it myself and I’m not even a local. If it’s illegal then it’s just going to go off the books, at a small cost to taxes and accuracy of records, for some people; but for others it will force them to end this traditional practice, and I can imagine that might…

[deleted]

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#842

Post by b112 »

Zircom wrote: post #607
b112 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent trucker protest in Canada, had just this happen. People locked out of their accounts. For protesting!

Blocking domestic and international commerce, and more importantly access for emergency services, goes a little beyond just "protesting" as most people see it, and it also probably isn't protected by whatever right to assemble/protest people have in Canada, if any(?).

Blocking domestic and international commerce, and more importantly access for emergency services, goes a little beyond just "protesting" as most people see it,

Blocking emergency services is a very, very weird thing. Loads of protests do so. Parades do so.

That said, the problem isn't "was it a protest or not", the problem is judicial oversight was suspended, by employing what used to be called The War Measures Act.

Yes, only some of the powers were used. Yet those powers were used to bypass all legal and constitutional protections, and snoop into bank accounts, and freeze bank accounts, again... all without judicial oversight.

None of these people had been charged. To this day, most of those who had their bank accounts snooped in, and frozen (and later thawed), were never charged with a crime.

This is not possible in Canada, legally, without using one of the most powerful laws at our disposal. And regardless of the protest length, or type, it wasn't an emergency.

Blockades at the borders, and in Alberta were cleared without issue, before the act was declared.

Lastly, compared to protests in some other democratic countries? It was nothing. Meaningless. Tiny. Trivial.

But again, most importantly -- agree or not, like or not, even if you hated those truckers, having the government declare an emergency, for something that was not? Then having that government use those powers to bypass the judicial branch?

Insane. Wrong. Horrifying.

Such laws should absolutely not be used to punish your political rivals!

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#843

Post by Quarrelsome »

nix23 wrote: post #824
Quarrelsome wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if a criminal gives another criminal money then the money is still black. You need to launder it to make it white. Now its harder to launder large quantities because you have to turn it into even smaller chunks.

>You need to launder it to make it white. Yes i buy drugs and sell them...i don't think the mafia has anything against that money, they will then just give it to the Vatican bank to wash it. If you really don't understand that this i just a excuse....

Vatican City is not in the EU.

I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here. This legislation will make it harder for people to simply launder money. Yes, you are right that it won't stop people from complicatedly laundering money but that's not the point of the legislation.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#844

Post by b112 »

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #794
b112 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant No. Just no. Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, such as when Google support provides crappy service, or ghosts you, in the name of profit. Rights are rights. Entrenched, untouchable, everlasting. And each loss affects us all, for the next right taken, is from you. Telling people they must use private enterprise, a third party and pa…

> Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, the right to use large amounts of cash is a fictional right.

The way you are defining it is fictional, and not the right being abridged.

By forcing the use of 3rd parties, to be able to trade, for people to sell goods they craft and create, there is an abridgement of multiple rights.

This will be overturned.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#845

Post by Dylan16807 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #733
Dylan16807 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you complaining that the amount you could do in a single contactless transaction went up ? I can't tell what you're arguing. If you're talking about fees I thought those were capped a while ago and haven't increased.

> the amount you could do in a single contactless transaction (Certainly not me: I will not accept embedded fixed NFC - not in documents, not in bank cards, not in general.) Yes. I will rephrase: people were told, "Here are the details of the system: if anything goes wrong, it can only be for 25u". Some people trusted that as a fixed contract. Then, some received the (expectable) communications that the formerly esta…

But I hope you realize you're citing a type of payment system being repeatedly made more convenient to support the idea of a payment system being repeatedly made less convenient. And I don't know why people would expect a security feature to never allow more.

Also is "u" standing for a specific currency, or what?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#846

Post by t0bia_s »

Teandw wrote: post #777
t0bia_s wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need man in middle in your payments?

Having a man in the middle of payments adds more benefits that it does cons.

So you would make payments totally dependent on: - eletricity - smartphone - data signal - bank account - no privacy

Can you imagine that old people, homeless or even small kids that want buy a candy will not be able to buy anything?

Keep your benefits for yourself.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#847

Post by lilsoso »

chupasaurus wrote: post #835
lilsoso wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, technically. But you won't be able to use an American Mastercard. Maestro is a debit card, generally it will look like this: https://www.abnamro.com/en/news/pin-needed-less-often-when-m... . I've never seen it in the US.

I haven't seen Maestro-exclusive terminals for 10 years, at least with support of Mastercard, but the survivorship bias is hard because my country was a playground for all new tech of both Visa and MC.

The issue is that Albert Heijn, and many other stores in the Netherlands, will not accept credit cards. And then American-issued debit cards do not seem to work either (eg, Bank of America shows the symbol "Debit Visa"). Perhaps debit cards from say Austria work (they're often on similar networks as the Dutch banks).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#848

Post by landemva »

ashwagary wrote: post #838
B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This approach of treating everyone like criminals is pervasive in current times if you usually keep 10k of cash in your pocket, you're probably someone who's not scared by criminals. And I only know two types of people with those characteristics: corrupted cops and other criminals. EDIT: it is actually 3 kinds, the third one being taxi drivers, which in my country are mostly low-level criminals.

Remember about 10 years ago when Cyprus started confiscating money held in private bank accounts to settle government debts and the people holding cash kept their money because it was physically in their possession and harder to confiscate? Remember earlier this year when people in Lebanon had to hold bank managers at gun point to try and withdraw money from their own accounts so they could buy basic goods as the eco…

The politicians are definitely laughing at the workers. Panama Papers showed part of the politician's stash of corrupt funds.

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r...

"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property."

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#849

Post by mcv »

from wrote: post #602
mcv wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is. This isn't about differentiating between rich and poor, nor about monitoring people becoming rich. It's about making sure that the kind of transaction that no normal person would ever do in cash, cannot be done in cash. It targets rich crooks not by identifying them, but by targeting the kind of transaction that only they would ever do.

Are you aware that millions of currency transaction reports and form 8300s are filed in the US every year and that a vanishingly small fraction of those lead to any law enforcement followup? The vast majority of economic activity including cash based economic activity is legitimate. If you want to balance the interests of law enforcement or whatever then just make it required that the transactions are reported but ju…

I don't see how any of that is relevant. They're not targeting the majority of economic activity, nor even the majority of cash transactions. They're only targeting cash transactions so unusually large that it's hard to imagine a legitimate purpose for them. Small cash transactions are unaffected.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#850

Post by mcv »

coldtea wrote: post #382
mcv wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want privacy for regular people, accountability for the rich and powerful.

Muahahahaha! They are one with the rich and powerful...

The Greens are not exactly the rich and powerful. If they were, a lot more would have been done about various kind of pollution by now.
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