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Blocking Kiwifarms

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Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#841

Post by floodyberry- »

eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

"hi I'm a liar and we only did something because the bad press started to go mainstream. fuck trans people"

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#842

Post by yosamino »

Test0129 wrote: post #31

Quoted post unavailable.

I will be a "crybully":

- Cloudflare provides a service

- some "unsavory" people buy this service

- Cloudflare decides that they do not want to provide this service anymore so they terminate it.

The specifics of how exactly they terminated this service are really unsubstantial to the question of censorship. You might be right for kiwifarm to have a case here,

They did not terminate them for "being" a particular way, they terminated them for "doing" a particular thing. In other words, they were not judged for the color if their skin, but for the content of their character.

If anything, cloudflare should do this more often - they protect way too many people and gargabe contentewho do not and which does not deserve this kind of protection.

If people want to be an asshole on the internet - or in real life - that is their perogative, but they cannot reasonable expect to have the enthusiatic support of society in doing so.

The way you are wrong comes up here:

  "Surely, we will see many more websites go down"
These sites all chose to use cloudflare - not the other way around. cloudflare has zero control over these sites. If cloudflare stops to provide them with their service, they can just move somewhere else. cloudflare is not the internet, they just take themselves way to seriously. What they have built is not unique, it is just very large. They are not preventing kiwifarm from expressing themselves in any way shape or form. If kiwifarm wants DDOS protection, they can find a different DDOS protection service, and if they find out they are so despised that noone will take them, then they can make their own DDOS protection service. They aren't owed a platform for their shitty views. Just like I am not owed one for my arguably much less shitty views.

I would go as far as saying that beyond the allocation of IP address space and to a certain extent domain names - nobody is owed anything to participate on the internet. These are the building blocks. Go build things with them,

And if you have built them and someone ask you to share these things you have built, but then decides to use them to do shitty things, just tell them

"Hey this doesn't work for me, if you wanna say these things, please do so from your own space."

That is not censorship.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#843

Post by forgotpwd16 »

password4321 wrote: post #557

Anyone willing to stick their neck out with a HN-undeletable prediction of who'll be the target of the next pressure campaign? (which of course wasn't the reason for blocking...) The rumblings I'm detecting now seem to be related to misinformation.

Fiberhub apparently.

https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1566263664746926080

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#844

Post by boudin »

xupybd wrote: post #519
notatoad wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rather than free speech i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a "free speech advocate" to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech". their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is. if you really believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been…

Free speech is about giving people the freedom to say things I find disgusting. It's about giving each individual the choice to listen to what ever influence they wish. It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.

Free speech doesn't mean not being held reponsible for what is said.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#845

Post by prmoustache »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #708
notatoad wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rather than free speech i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a "free speech advocate" to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech". their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is. if you really believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been…

Quoted post unavailable.

It is as mussel IQ level thinking as drivers who raise the "but cyclists don't respect the traffic lights" flags whenever something is discussed about road safety.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#846

Post by coffeeblack »

RealUser69 wrote: post #399
coffeeblack wrote: post #360

So we have privatised the legislative and police on the internet? What that means we shall see in ten years or so. Why are crimes committed on KF not stopped “the old fashioned way”, ie rule of law and the court system?

1. What crimes? 2. Has the owner of the site ever allowed illegal content or behaviour on the website?

I don’t know, but since everybody here seems to favour the censorship, I assumed that some crimes were being committed. If nobody even broke the law, then what’s this all about?

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#847

Post by herbst »

kanbara wrote: post #824
chroma wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech isn't about speech. It's about hearing. There are people who want to read or listen to what others have to say, and often for reasons besides agreement with the author's statements. By silencing someone, you are preventing others from reading what they want to read or hearing what they want to hear. I certainly don't agree with the posts and comments on kiwifarms, but I want to understand what they…

providing hateful content spreads hate. clinging to some idea that absolute freedom of speech allows us to be moral and just is quite frankly bs when the spread of fascist / terrorist / homophobic / racist propaganda contributes to the destruction of democracy and the very freedoms we hold dear

No post body was provided.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#848

Post by herbst »

mchusma wrote: post #570
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

I'd like to honestly better understand why, if there is a threat of violence, law enforcement cannot act.

To be fair the far majority of threads on Kiwifarms did not call to act at all. I am no regular visitor but so far I never saw someone calling for violence or anything. Rather the opposite was a common message along 'enjoy the content but don't interact with them'

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#849

Post by unraveller »

dcow wrote: post #839
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

The problem is: how do you determine that nobody else was taking this seriously? I don't know anything about Kiwifarms, so I may simply look foolish asking this, but: how do you know there was an imminent emergency? Did you conduct your own independent investigation? Or was this a response to some alarming Twitter outrage? Those are the type of questions on my mind. Essentially, did you do all the things one would re…

if CloudFlare is hiring in their precrime division I want to apply. I like the idea of not waiting for the law to act (or fail) at its own pace.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#850

Post by bt4u »

yew wrote: post #613
password4321 wrote: post #557

Anyone willing to stick their neck out with a HN-undeletable prediction of who'll be the target of the next pressure campaign? (which of course wasn't the reason for blocking...) The rumblings I'm detecting now seem to be related to misinformation.

Ovarit took part in the harassment campaign, so hopefully they go next. Don't know if Cloudflare hosts them though. Edit: And 4chan is always bigger but more diffuse. Hard to say who's more of a pest. Edit edit: I think the important lesson here is that direct targeting of fascist employees and ex-employees of enablers is very much a live tactic. It worked, it works, it will continue to work.

How can you be against harassment campaigns while at the same time inciting harassment campaigns? Do you ever notice your hypocrisy and just ignore it or?
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