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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#841

Post by sudosysgen »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #832
sudosysgen wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when they can handle it as best as you can expect from someone, it's still not going to be enough. You can reduce class sizes by hiring more teachers. Their salaries aren't actually a huge fraction of education spending (only around ~15% if you assume one teacher for every 30 fulltime students and 80k TC per fulltime teacher, both of which are deliberate overestimates). Hire 30% more teachers, give them a 30% pa…

Sports have a huge amount of value for young people, your perspective on this is not dearly as reasonable as you make it seem.

They absolutely do. I benefitted a lot from sports as a kid. You just don't need to put as much money into them as many schools do. For example many schools nowadays have their own pool, or multiple stadiums, dozens of teams with multiple long distance travel a year, and so on, while a lot of that could be using shared infrastructure or done outside of the school.

And often the vast majority of the money in sports is concentrated towards a very small fraction of the student population, often for regional pride above their self-actualisation. A lot of high school athletes are quite miserable or do it out of social pressure.

I'm not saying we need less sports, we can just do it with less money that is better allocated.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#842

Post by rr808 »

Ekaros wrote: post #288
logicalmonster wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). 1) European perspectives on a lot of American problems miss one of the biggest differences between us: you have a lot more of a homogeneous population. There's numerous differences be…

1) Do those really have that big difference? Should they? I could see a point if we were discussing first or second generation immigrants. Specially not those from highly educated parents. Coming from Finland which did rather well with much less hours spend it might as well be systematic issue. Maybe process of the teaching itself has something wrong.

Are Finland's schools like my city? 30% of its children descendants of slaves? + 10% illegal immigrants? A good few percent homeless, parents in jail and/or hard drug addicts. 20% with both parents working 100 hours between them. Some bring guns to school. Teaching isn't all about teaching.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#843

Post by Wistar »

donw wrote: post #817
Wistar wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is a primary public school teacher in the U.S. I read to her your comment, and she said to me, "We have 21 teachers at our school, and only one of them resembles what that comment describes."

My parents were both teachers. A significant trunk of my classmates went into teaching after college. We keep in touch. The above comment is accurate.

Which "above comment"?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#844

Post by jancsika »

gorgoiler wrote: post #645

I tried teaching high school CS for the best part of two years in a private school. Everything to do with the pupils was amazing and I loved every moment. I am a natural with behaviour management and although it was stressful, every time the bad kids acted up it presented a teachable moment. You could really feel the impact on their lives and behaviour, well behind the Python and the TCP/IP and while loops. But every…

> So now I am tainted too — if I hear you are a teacher then I will see before me someone who at best tolerates that level of crappiness in their workplace, and at worst actively takes part in it. Neither leave me with much respect for you, but I know why you do it: the kids.

I can't be sure those "jobsworths" are writing screeds online to rationalize their present (and future!) lack of respect towards teachers, based on nothing but a wild extrapolation from a personal anecdote at a private school.

However, I can be sure you are.

If you really want to get their goats, why not try this: stop doing it. Bam: taint instantly removed. What could be a more passive aggressive solution than that? :)

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#845

Post by ltbarcly3 »

dhosek wrote: post #457

Former HS math teacher here. It was the hardest job I’ve ever had. I still have nightmares about being back in the classroom 18 years later. I was easily working 12+ hours a day doing class planning, grading, etc. not to mention the actual teaching. Returning to programming my pay doubled and my stress level dropped profoundly. Teacher pay should easily be double what it is. (And about that summers off—with the excep…

Well then there was my math teacher in HS, who made me grade the homework during her planning period while she sold Avon to random people who came into the school and met with her in the math teachers' office. Not all teachers even try to do their job.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#846

Post by Ekaros »

rr808 wrote: post #842
Ekaros wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Do those really have that big difference? Should they? I could see a point if we were discussing first or second generation immigrants. Specially not those from highly educated parents. Coming from Finland which did rather well with much less hours spend it might as well be systematic issue. Maybe process of the teaching itself has something wrong.

Are Finland's schools like my city? 30% of its children descendants of slaves? + 10% illegal immigrants? A good few percent homeless, parents in jail and/or hard drug addicts. 20% with both parents working 100 hours between them. Some bring guns to school. Teaching isn't all about teaching.

30% descendants of slaves? You mean their parents were slaves? I really recommend you moving out of such third world society. If they had slavery this millennia they can not be saved.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#847

Post by rr808 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #643
obscurette wrote: post #618

1. This is not about America. I'm from Eastern Europe and we have the very same problems. 2. This is not about money. Yes, being underpaid is part of a problem how teachers feel, but no money compensates humiliation and bullying teachers are experiencing. 3. It's not a rant. This EXACTLY how I feel after spending three years at school. I was a math teacher in classes of my kids because a school couldn't find any. Yes…

I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society.

> Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society.

You sure? on the list they get paid near the worst in the OECD.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/heres-how-much-teachers-arou...

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#848

Post by nine_k »

dmerks wrote: post #802
just_boost_it wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I grew up, there were different classes for the smart kids and the less smart kids. There was a bottom class where the students had all sorts of behavioural issues. Some people just won't learn, and I think it's fair to separate them from the people who do. At least that way, teachers get at least a few classes of eager students.

This was the generally accepted approach nationwide in the past, until we realized it fuels systemic transgenerational inequalities, a bit like economic, racial, residential, etc. forms of segregation.

Putting a hooligan amongst decent people works, but only of the decent people can force the hooligan to behave. Most of the time, it works by just peer pressure, even in the positive sense. But for those who don't yield, a society at large has police. And a classroom does not have police.

So a teacher has a choice: to be a saint (and do miracles), to be the police (with hands tied though), or to be a victim. Sadly, many end up with the third option :(

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#849

Post by Ekaros »

okaram wrote: post #781
galaxyLogic wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teacher's job is no doubt stressful. Therefore I think we must invent new ways of automating the teaching, amplify the powers of a single teacher. That way there will be enough teachers to provide for every child. Not sure how to get there. But what about the adult population? I think large swaths of it are in need of more education. Math literacy, evidence-based evaluation of propaganda. Large portion of US populati…

We already automate things and amplify somewhat the power of a teacher... We've been trying computer stuff for decades (and books before). You still need tons of teachers.

Also, what are books if not "automated" method of teaching...

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#850

Post by SamBam »

midoridensha wrote: post #806
KennyBlanken wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, and hear me out: we could cut our military budget (which is larger than the next ten or so countries combined, both total and per capita) and start tipping the corporate tax share back towards the ~%50 it was sixty years ago and magically be able to: * pay teachers a fair wage * hire enough teachers, assistants, and admins so that teachers don't have to work at least another half a workday 'off the books' * fund…

>Or, and hear me out: we could cut our military budget (which is larger than the next ten or so countries combined, both total and per capita) No, it's not. Russia, Israel, and Saudi Arabia all spend more as a percentage of GDP on their militaries than America.

How can you say "No, it's not," when OP provided a very clear definition of how they're measuring ("both total and per capita") and you provided a completely different one ("as a percentage of GDP").
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