Control.
If 1000s of people die in ways we deem them able to control (be it car crashes or obesity) that's on them. If they die in ways deemed beyond their control (plane crashes) then that's something you have to stop.
Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
841–850 of 1001 posts
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#842Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Something like 80% of fatal crashes involve either alcohol, no seatbelt, or excessive speed This is the crux of the issue on why we as a society ignore car crashes and panic about train/plane crashes. I'd wager it mostly comes down to filtering out things we feel we have control over stressing about those we don't.
Yep I believe that is a pretty well established cognitive bias called Illusion of Control [1]. Going down the rabbit hole of cognitive biases is a fascinating journey, and lot of them are relevant when driving a car. One I found especially interesting is specifically about how improving safety features may not reduce accidents as much as it could, because when people feel safer, they tend to take greater risks [2] [1…
That’s not the illusion of control. It’s the opposite. Those 3 things that dominate crashes are quite literally things you can control.
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#843Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What evidence is there that the attrition we see from car accidents is actually a net-loss for society? What does "attrition" mean? People killed in car crashes? How could that not be a net loss? Your second sentence says "furthermore" to introduce the idea of the cost of safety measures, so that seems to imply the first sentence isn't considering the cost of safety measures.
> What does "attrition" mean? People killed in car crashes? Yes > How could that not be a net loss? Is every human a net-positive to society? Obviously an objective measure is impossible to establish, but I doubt everyone is a net-gain. How random are car-related deaths? Is this actually a problem?
By and large, people very much like to stay alive.
So, if you don't care much about Bob one way or another, but Bob and his family care about Bob, on net society cares about keeping Bob alive.
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#844> It is widely recognized that there is an epidemic of suicides among current and former military personnel, especially those who have been on active duty in a combat theater... There were 3,481 combat deaths in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Since 9/11, there have been over 30,000 military suicides. Over 20 soldiers a day take their own lives. Pet peeve: while I really like the general point of the article, I wish the aut…
Suicide is one of the leading causes of death for young men, and who makes up a lot of military veterans?
The same for gun ownership.
The same for people facing major changes in lifestyle and income.
The same for people suddenly removed from their social circles.
It's sort of amazing it isn't MUCH MUCH Higher among veterans...
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#845Earlier quoted context omitted.
Name two countries/areas that you want to use as an example in this argument. Otherwise if anyone else gives a counterexample you can easily move goalposts on them.
That's pretty easy. Sweden is the poster child of a rational covid19 response. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_... Sweden deaths per million: 1834 U.S. deaths per million: 3043 However you can also choose various European countries that avoided masking children and minimized school disruption. France and UK for starters, but also all the Nordic countries. Sweden being quite different from…
The UK absolutely required children to wear masks in schools in various situations. Schools were closed for significant periods of time as well.
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#846Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't have to be like this though: Other countries pay attention to crashes, especially with fatalities. One of my uncles was a civil engineer working in Spain's government, now retired. All crashes reported to the police would be marked in maps, with an extra layer for fatalities. Then they'd be grouped by the kilometer of road, to look for the sections of road that were the most dangerous. The worst locations…
I don’t know how you’re even comparing American roads to European roads. I spent 3 months in Europe and all I took away from that is how well planned and well thought out American roads are. I just took them for granted.
Europe is a big and diverse place. Where did you go to?
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#847Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This maximum would barely change your time to destination Yes it would. The drive from LA to San Francisco is about 300 miles on Interstate 5. Much of this highway is completely straight, with excellent visibility through an unpopulated desert. When sparsely trafficked (as it is much of the time), it is safe to drive 80+ MPH on I5 for hours at a time. At 80 MPH, this is a 3 hour 45 minute drive. At your proposed 60…
Gonna go ahead and say the unthinkable here... so what? The person driving fast endangers themselves and everyone else around them. In what other area of society do we tolerate extremely dangerous behavior (40,000+ deaths a year) because to not would be an inconvenience? Guns, I suppose. But I'm not a huge fan or our polices around those either.
> what other area of society do we tolerate extremely dangerous behavior (40,000+ deaths a year) because to not would be an inconvenience?
Lol, heart disease wipes out an order of magnitude more people every year and we do absolutely nothing to stop people from eating and drinking themselves into obesity. But I guess you’re cool with it as long as it’s just suicide and a strain on our healthcare system?
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#848Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, now that they have been locked indoors all day they are free of death by car! Sadly there is inexplicable epidemic of obesity, and obesity linked disease appearing in this children later in life, what could possibly be the contributors?
I this attitude a lot, especially from Americans. A 'well if you change this to help A, this other thing B will get worse'. All while the US is at the bottom of list for both A and B.
Americans often get to make the uncomfortable decision as to eat a shit sandwich or a double shit sandwich.
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#849Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another anecdote on the other side of this: I've been driving since I was 15 for many thousands of miles and have only been involved in two incidents. Both my fault involving icy roads, but both where so minor that only paint damage occurred (no insurance involved). I live in the north-eastern United States for reference. Edit: I wouldn't say that my driving style is cautious either, I do drive attentively though.
Same here, I drove for 7-8 years (not that much though) and my major "accident" was with a thin and curvy tree that was on a dead spot of the rear mirrors while backing up. Was in 3 close calls where the results would have been much worse. In motorbike in contrast, you touch a wet patch or a gravel bit and it slides right away, 2 minor accidents like that for a total of ~8 weeks driving motorbikes (minor since I knew…
> In motorbike in contrast, you touch a wet patch or a gravel bit and it slides right away
Not a motobiker, but I find this part strange - I see people who commute daily on scooters, sports bikes and choppers too and they don't mind mild rain and wet roads much. They do drive slightly slower through city (and on highways too), but not more than 10kmh less.
If its anything similar to bicycle then you just take care on bends/intersections but thats just about it.
Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes
#850Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bicycle deaths per mi is like 6x of cars. Maybe bicycling around cars is a big reason for that, but we're measuring against the reality there is not the world we want to move towards. I'd say bicycling should be outlawed before driving without a seatbelt is (although I'd prefer both be legal). https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1901....
I think that alternatively, considering how approximately every death of a bicyclist or pedestrian, or car driver, is all caused by someone driving an enormous 5,000lb machine irresponsibly, we should redesign our cities in such a way that most people don’t need to drive those cars in the first place for most trips. And if you do need to drive a car, you have much less congested and smaller streets for those trips. T…
That sounds pretty nice to me. There's a bit of a tragedy of the commons situation here IMO. We should privatize all the roads and let the free market dictate what people like, and I think a lot of people would fall back to bicycles and walking more if they actually had to pay private tolls wherever they drove.