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More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

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Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#841

Post by ryan93 »

armchairhacker wrote: post #433
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #108

This is nearly a strictly American problem. Much of the rest of the world has realized that society requires and is capable of supporting advanced education for all -- after all we want humanity to be advancing , right? America is still stuck in this alternate universe where it's a great privilege to have the opportunity to learn, which is of course true to some extent, but they really put it on a pedestal there. Com…

Some people hate college and only go for the degree. College should be accessible to everyone but not everyone needs to go to college.

How is it not accessible? Federal loans are given no questions asked. Where are these good students who can’t get into college

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#842

Post by eduhec4teawayyy »

HWR_14 wrote: post #130
bagacrap wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loans are exactly why the colleges were able to continue jacking up the prices. As with homes, people will pay as much as institutions are willing to loan them. In both cases the currently low interest rates allow the loan principal to be much higher (given that folks calculate cost based on recurring payments). If you remove the student loan system then tuition would become cheaper. However that does unfairly im…

It's not just loans, it's COVID. If I were college-age and I were planning on going to college I would certainly do one of two things. I would postpone college until the COVID issues died down -or- I would use the fewer applicants to get into a more prestigious school banking on a better 3 year experience (out of 4) starting in the fall of 2022 and more impressive degree going forward. Either way, I can imagine admit…

Sadly, the ship has sailed on that one. Apparently college applications have been unusually cutthroat this year.

The problem is, the pandemic has been in full swing for the past two application seasons, and you can only take so many gap years.

There is a large backlog of very talented students. It's not a good time to be an applicant.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#844

Post by scollet »

ffwszgf wrote: post #492
larkost wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but depending on which state you are in in Germany (and Austria) you get routed at around 4th grade. If the teachers decide that you are academically fit for it then you go on to the Gymnasium, which prepares you for college, often with some focus for your class (e.g.: mathematics, arts, or science). If those same teachers decide that you are not up to college, but are still smart enough for something…

This would never be allowed in America. the notion of “merit” in the US is associated with white supremacy and the idea that you can divide kids by their skills/grades will get you in trouble, especially if you do it that early. If for whatever reason the demographics at each track are not the same as those of the nation it will get called racist and shut down quick.

You can't make something up and apply it to an entire continent.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#845

Post by tkgally »

paulpauper wrote: post #249
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #108

This is nearly a strictly American problem. Much of the rest of the world has realized that society requires and is capable of supporting advanced education for all -- after all we want humanity to be advancing , right? America is still stuck in this alternate universe where it's a great privilege to have the opportunity to learn, which is of course true to some extent, but they really put it on a pedestal there. Com…

This is nearly a strictly American problem. Much of the rest of the world has realized that society requires and is capable of supporting advanced education for all -- after all we want humanity to be advancing, right? I think foreign colleges have stricter entry requirements and fewer amenities compared to American colleges. So yes, college may be free in Japan, but also much harder to be accepted.

College is, overall, cheaper in Japan than in the U.S., but it isn’t free [1]. You might be thinking of some countries in Europe.

The top schools in Japan are indeed quite competitive, but there are also universities that admit almost any high school graduate. A few decades ago, a lot of new universities were established just when the birthrate was starting to drop. Now some lower-tier private universities are struggling to attract enough students to survive.

[1] https://schoolynk.com/media/articles/245ea105-7e5e-49db-ad13...

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#846

Post by mcdermott »

Based on experience interviewing many job candidates over the past 5 years, college degrees are no longer an indicator or knowledge, abilities or intelligence. It seems like a four year degree today means almost nothing, I'm not sure what they are teaching these days beyond woke activism, but it's not working. On average I'd rather hire someone that received high school diploma in the 1990s and has a little experience than recent collage graduates.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#847

Post by graycat »

prirun wrote: post #697
welshwelsh wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are some pipefitters who make a lot of money, but we should go by averages, not outliers. The average for "Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Steamfitters" is $56,330 per year, according to the BLS. For "Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers" it's $110,140 per year. For "Physicians and Surgeons," it's $208,000 per year. We also need to consider that running your own business is a lot of…

> One of the benefits of office jobs is that you get high pay, stable hours, relatively low stress and get to work in an air-conditioned room. So I would still prefer that over skilled trades even if the pay was the same. One of the downsides is your job can be easily outsourced to a country with lower wages, and with remote work here to stay (IMO), that is going to be even easier than before. There are no remote plu…

A big point is: (1) As an employee X, the employer knows how much X is making and will try to keep that down, while (2) a person X who owns their own business that happens to be a good business can just rake in the money with nearly no one else the wiser who can stop or slow X.

E.g., while I was growing up, a guy in the neighborhood was doing really well. He was in the peanut vending business, you remember, put in a coin, turn a crank, and get out some peanuts. So the customer, how do they know how much money the peanut vendor is making?

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#849

Post by pb7 »

dan-0 wrote: post #827
pb7 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Trades are overwhelmingly what people do when they don't go for a BA, and often have houses and children far before college graduates. Having a house and children as soon as possible isn't a win. It's what happens when you lack imagination. There's so much more to life than pumping out kids at 21 in your 3/2 in fly over country.

> There's so much more to life than pumping out kids I think it's pretty hard to argue this is true while literally making "life." Yeah you don't usually get a shiny new car and an unnecessarily large house having kids at 21, but the life you're talking about is a negative for humanity. What does it matter when you're happy and have everything you need to survive and provide anyways? That's what a "win" is.

>Yeah you don't usually get a shiny new car and an unnecessarily large house having kids at 21, but the life you're talking about is a negative for humanity.

This is so far from what I’m talking about that it’s closer to what I’m arguing against than for it. I am not talking about materialistic things. I am talking about experiences, relationships, and outlook-defining memories.

> What does it matter when you're happy and have everything you need to survive and provide anyways? That's what a "win" is.

Eating buttered potatoes for the rest of my life isn’t a win to me even if it will technically sustain me.

You can do more. You can be more. You can experience more. And most people don’t even try. Sad.

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