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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#841

Post by tashoecraft »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #834
TheTrotters wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a great experience with Audible. I switched from Audible UK to Audible US but forgot to cancel the former. After six months I noticed I had 6 credits I didn't want. I sent one short e-mail explaining what happened and within 15-30 minutes I got a response that said they'll refund everything.

I’m glad you had a good experience, but IMO the way Audible works is a mess of dark patterns to begin with. If you stop paying for one month you loose all your credits, so when I’m not reading as much I end up in a bind where I can’t cancel, but if I don’t cancel I get deeper in a hole. You can pause a subscription, but only once every couple years and only for 90 days, and the option is hidden.

I will say that maybe they’ve updated things, because I went to cancel and it said “you have x amount of credits, would you like to pause for y time in order to keep them”. In no way was it hidden. I hate the credit system and the fact that they go away, but pausing was encouraged

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#842

Post by meitham »

nojs wrote: post #840

Not a newspaper subscriber but can’t you just cut these payments off at the source by calling the bank and telling them it’s fraudulent and unauthorised? PayPal, Apple etc make this pretty easy for most subscriptions.

I did that with BSKYB for tv subscription 7 years ago. They were chasing for payment until last year.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#843

Post by bradstewart »

orangepurple wrote: post #714
bradstewart wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal favorite was a poorly-timed stop light, with a red-light camera. If you entered the intersection as the light turned yellow, and drove the speed limit, you would still be partially in the intersection when the light turned red. And promptly get a ticket in the mail. Nobody realized what was happening (at least not those on the receiving end of the tickets) until my high school math teacher got one. She we…

Then gets sued for practicing engineering without a license. In a display of civic engagement, Mats emailed the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying in the hopes that they could help him raise public awareness and asked for their “support and help to investigate and present the laws of physics related to transportation engineering.” He got the opposite. After curtly informing Mats that t…

Wow,that's insane. Thankfully in my teacher's case, the city basically said "oops our bad" and did actually extend the yellow (albeit several months later).

They did not refund any of the past fines though.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#844

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

bertil wrote: post #835
hirsin wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking to this myself - I was blown away by Masterclass letting me do this, after I forgot it would renew. I responded to their "hey you've been charged" email with something like "I forgot about this and didn't mean to renew". In perhaps ten minutes I had a cancelation notice and refund. Way more likely to get their stuff again. Bonus points for not sending the bill from some faceless "no reply" address.

For what it’s worth: I’ve been considering trying out Masterclass because their content seem great, but worried that something will come up and I’ll be locked into a yearly contract or something, so I never tried. Your comment made me confident that I should.

I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it. There's content that is just a treat and fun to watch, but the idea of it being a "class" is rather disingenuous. Like, are you really going to become a composer after watching 6 hours of content? Or a rock climber?

But the stuff that is set up where you can have a chance at succeeding by practicing what you are seeing really does work. I was gifted a subscription and because of it watched the Thomas Keller series of cooking. I had never cooked before, but I have tried just about every recipe of the series a few times over, and no joke I've been able to produce truly REALLY fine dining experiences at home. Those lessons, for instance, are super didactic, build cooking up from first principles, show you all the steps, etc. It is fascinating content.

And then, for instance, watching some of the other stuff, like rock climbing, for example, can also just be fun. So, all in all, I think depending on what your profile is and what your expectations of it are it can actually be worth it.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#845

Post by dncornholio »

taway125 wrote: post #810
Axien wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is crazy. I spent 20 minutes trying to cancel the WSJ. It is infuriating.

I recently tried to cancel the WSJ Them: Hello Me: Hello, cancel my account Them: I'm sorry to hear that, what is the cause of Me: I just want to cancel my account Them: Lets try and understand what we can improve Me: I just want to cancel my account Them: Sir, i understand but perhaps we can explore other options Me: CANCEL MY ACCOUNT Them: .... Me: Are you having a hard time understanding English receptionist says…

Exactly how I imagined my call would go like, almost word for word. Society has been way to gullible to phone-calls and when they try shit like this to me I make extra work to react very harshly.

I also confirm with them that we speak the same language, do what I said and don't try ANY bullshit on me. Make them as uncomfortable as possible. Not for me, but for the next person they're calling.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#847

Post by stedolph »

Joeri wrote: post #759
idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

There is this common perception of companies as if they are entirely rational organizations, and every policy that we don’t like exists because it is profitable and benefits the company at the expense of the customer. But sometimes bad policies are just bad, they benefit no one, and they exist for dumb reasons. Maybe call to unsubscribe is one of those policies.

Yes, this is the way. It doesn't makes sense.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#848

Post by fbanon »

derbOac wrote: post #591
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

This is one reason I miss one-time credit card numbers. My main credit card used to allow you to generate one-time numbers. You could control the limit on the numbers, how long they would last, you could edit this, and so forth and so on. I loved it because you could give a different unique card number to each site, that would self-destruct after a specified amount of time. It was great for stuff like this because if…

Revolut has those: https://blog.revolut.com/introducing-disposable-virtual-card...

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#849

Post by loh »

idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

I always treat my customers/clients the way I would want to be treated, and it always seems to work out for the best. I've also given refunds to some customers without them asking for it first because I value their satisfaction more than I value a few dollars. There's no way to know for sure, but I suspect treating customers like this (like humans) increases retention and well-being, and not only for them, but for me (and my company) as well. It's called the golden rule for a reason. :)
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