Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#841

Post by varenc » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

munro wrote: post #274

Here's the link to the MacBookPro18,2 OpenCL benchmark: * M1 Max OpenCL https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/3551790 [60,167 OpenCL Score] Comparing to my current MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) & my Hetzner AX101 server: * MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) vs M1 Max - CPU https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10496766?baseli... [single 163.6%, multi 188.8%] * MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) vs M1 Max - Open…

Since we're comparing against M1 Max, it's more fair to use a fully maxed out Macbook Pro 16-inch for comparison:

* MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) vs M1 Max - CPU https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10496766?baseli... [single 145.8%, multi 176.3%]

* MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) vs M1 Max - OpenCL https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/compare/3551790?bas... [153.0%]

* MacBook Pro (16-inch Late 2019) vs M1 Max - Metal https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/compare/3557857?bas... [167.2%]

The M1 Max still wins by a large margin, but there's a slightly smaller gap. The CPU difference is negligible but the upgraded Radeon Pro 5600M graphics card narrows the gap a bit more. It's comparable to a Radeon RX 580. The default 5500M is pretty only about 60% as powerful and surprisingly runs hotter despite being slower. (TDP 85W vs 60W it seems)

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#842

Post by hajile » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

pja wrote: post #837

hajile wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compute MT is using both CPU and GPU together. To compete, any other CPU needs to use a dedicated GPU. Also, at idle, the DRAM and SSD are powered off. Samsung 980 uses 4.5 watts of power when active. I'd guess a similar power consumption applies here. LPDDR4x ranges from 0.6v to 1.8v This should give 2-3w per 8gb chip at full-power. Anandtech's article agrees with ST Memory adding 4.2w of power over their other ST b…

I don’t think your logic is based on sound assumptions: You can’t completely turn off DRAM at idle if it’s to store data - it has to self-refresh continuously. Some power savings are available by running it in a power saving mode, but you can’t get around the leakage of the DRAM cells, so the extra power used to drive the DRAM hard is not the full DRAM power usage, but a fraction of it. (LPDDR5 is nifty in that you c…

LPDDR4x has various power levels based on whether it's actually being used or just keeping data from corrupting. The latter is much less memory intensive and runs at much lower voltages. You may have a point about SSD depending on how much read/write is happening.

Check out this comparison of the passively-cooled M1 Macbook Air vs both Intel and AMD Surface 4 machines.

https://youtu.be/7yTWGjYFiC0?t=509

TL;DR -- AMD loses 25-50% of their performance as soon as the plug is removed. Their actual power usage spikes at 40w (for a 10-25w U-series CPU). No matter how you cut it, Peak M1 power usage is about half for similar performance.

Insult to injury, the M1 not only has far better performance, but it's also cheaper.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#843

Post by EvgeniyZh » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #840

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that top Apple chip outperforms top Intel chip by 9% percent single core performance and 34% multicore on similar TDP. M1 is very energy efficient, and MBA is very cool cheap typewriter, but Apple hasn't outperformed Intel on high load. So yeah, basically Apple has chip that slightly outperform Intel at high load and also can be very low power. Performance-wise (that what the parent message was about) the latt…

>So yeah, basically Apple has chip that slightly outperform Intel at high load and also can be very low power. This is what people are impressed by. Given your 'typewriter' comment, you're clearly not interested in a lightweight laptop with decent performance and an extremely long battery life. But a lot of people are very interested in exactly this combination of features. And to be serious for a moment, the M1 Macb…

My OP talked exactly about claims (and there are many at least around me) of outperforming in terms of raw power.

I never argued with the fact that ARM allows to stick a couple of very low-power cores, while x86 doesn't.

In terms of "lightweight laptop with decent performance" MBP (the discussion is about new stuff after all) is less interesting, because it's heavier, more expensive, and probably doesn't provide much added value. M1 was revolution (mostly because someone took ARM and put in popular laptop and took the burden of software transition), those are much less so.

I can see myself getting MBA if I'll need something small and cheap and there won't be decent competition (maybe Google's Chromebooks? Or something from Samsung?), but not MBP (mostly because I dislike Apple's UX and I think competition is decent). I'd consider if it was say outperforming Intel by 50% in single core tasks.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#844

Post by vijucat » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

ubermonkey wrote: post #787

vijucat wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage. That's how I feel about macOS. It's for people who prioritize maximum animations over speed. For example, Finder is so slow compared to Windows Explorer. I love Windows. I love the customizability I love the speed, and even 15 years ago, there were 10X more software package for Windows than Mac. I hear that macOS in recent years (after 2019?) even allows you…

Do you mean the File/Edit/View menu bar, or the Dock? The Dock has been configurable forEVER. I ran it on the side for many years before switching back to the bottom.

Yes, the File/Edit/View menu bar that has to be at the top.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#845

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #843

foldr wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So yeah, basically Apple has chip that slightly outperform Intel at high load and also can be very low power. This is what people are impressed by. Given your 'typewriter' comment, you're clearly not interested in a lightweight laptop with decent performance and an extremely long battery life. But a lot of people are very interested in exactly this combination of features. And to be serious for a moment, the M1 Macb…

My OP talked exactly about claims (and there are many at least around me) of outperforming in terms of raw power. I never argued with the fact that ARM allows to stick a couple of very low-power cores, while x86 doesn't. In terms of "lightweight laptop with decent performance" MBP (the discussion is about new stuff after all) is less interesting, because it's heavier, more expensive, and probably doesn't provide much…

[deleted]

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#846

Post by pja » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

hajile wrote: post #842

pja wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think your logic is based on sound assumptions: You can’t completely turn off DRAM at idle if it’s to store data - it has to self-refresh continuously. Some power savings are available by running it in a power saving mode, but you can’t get around the leakage of the DRAM cells, so the extra power used to drive the DRAM hard is not the full DRAM power usage, but a fraction of it. (LPDDR5 is nifty in that you c…

LPDDR4x has various power levels based on whether it's actually being used or just keeping data from corrupting. The latter is much less memory intensive and runs at much lower voltages. You may have a point about SSD depending on how much read/write is happening. Check out this comparison of the passively-cooled M1 Macbook Air vs both Intel and AMD Surface 4 machines. https://youtu.be/7yTWGjYFiC0?t=509 TL;DR -- AMD…

Oh, the M1 is a great chip, no question!

But I think it’s maybe twice (three times tops?) as good as the competition on a power/perf basis, not the 10x some people keep claiming when they compare the 10W claimed by Apple against the 100+W TDP of similarly performing AMD/Intel CPUs.

Incidentally, assuming the benchmark they’re running is Geekbench (seems likely at this point), I’ve just run a pass of both CPU & Compute GeekBench5 benchmarks with iotop running in the background & neither did any disk IO of any significance during the run. I think the peak throughput I saw was 150kb/s and that might have been something else on the desktop (I didn’t bother killing anything). Most of the time there was no IO at all.

So, if it was GeekBench they were running (seems plausible) then I think we can assume that the SSD is idle & that the Compute benchmark is really a GPU benchmark.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#847

Post by hmottestad » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #278

Top intel mobile processor appears to be https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/10431820 M1 Max gives 9% boost for single-core and 34% for multicore, with similar or larger (?) TDP -- Intel is 35-45 W, M1 Max is 60W but I assume some of it (a lot?) goes to GPU. Impressive, but probably wouldn't be called revolution if came from Intel.

If you look up other laptops with the same processor you get a very large variation. The Lenovo you point to has a 280 watt power brick, maybe the results aren’t as good when it’s not plugged in.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#848

Post by nasmorn » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #607

adrianN wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tradeoff I'm making is money vs capability. My argument is that most people don't need the capabilities offered by brand new, top of the line models. A used laptop that is a couple of years old is, I think, the best choice for most people.

A new M1 laptop is likely to last 4-5 years as a good specification of machine. A second hand laptop has much less advantage to doing that. I think this is a false economy. “The poor man pays twice” But regardless: the cost isn’t outrageous when compared to the Dell XPS/latitude or HP Elitebook lines (which are the only laptops I know of designed to last a 5y support cycle). If you’re buying a new laptop, I don’t thi…

Also the M1 runs near silent or in case of the Air actually silent. I would pay an extra 1000 just for that alone. Turned out the Air was barely more than that in total. Which other laptop does that?

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#849

Post by account_b » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

YuukiRey wrote: post #729

blakesterz wrote: post #100

I just can't figure out what I'm missing on the "M1 is so fast" side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have…

My experience is the opposite. I love Linux, but my MacOS work laptop is just so much better. For as long as I've used Linux it freezes randomly. This happens on all hardware configurations I've ever owned. If I don't regularly save my work, I will end up losing it. These days I also can't leave my desktop PC suspended for too long. At some point the fans start spinning at max. No reason why. As for my 13 inch M1 lap…

Seems like you mostly have issues with Wayland. What distro are you running?

For me Zoom screen sharing works fine with Wayland, if everything runs Wayland, including the browser. Xwayland apps can't "see" Wayland apps or the desktop.

I assume the Zoom client may be Electron/Xwayland, correct?

The X to Wayland transition is mostly over soon. Probably with Ubuntu 22.04 LTS.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#850

Post by soylentnewsorg » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

tarsinge wrote: post #646

soylentnewsorg wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get it - you define pro as a guy at work running his backup application in a web browser, and the hipster at starbucks doing "graphic design." I define pro as "a workstation." The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Which explains why you define a kid's toy as "pro." I get it - you're getting paid. So is the barista at the starbucks you work from. Kia might define their k…

Just say it: using a laptop on battery power is for hipsters.

Yes, using a laptop for over 10 hours on battery is not for people who do any serious work needing a pro laptop - what is in the professional circle called a workstation. Glad you understand. Note apple's stated hours: 11 hours while browsing the internet, and 17 hours for watching videos. If this is your use case, you are not the target market for a workstation. Apple sells "pro" laptops like Kia sells racing cars.