Live data from Hacker News

Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

wsj.com

841–850 of 1001 posts

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. The real question is why you think they are when we live in the safest time in human history.

I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. "I have also failed to read or retain even a bit of 20th Century history."

Yes I'm sure the 20th century would have been much more peaceful with guns in everyone's hand. You sir have solved all political problems , just give everyone guns !

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#842

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> ability to fight

but not to win. You realize how ridiculous it sounds to go against the US government with rifles? It's worse than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Sometimes I can't help but feel like most of you gun loving folks are dreaming that you're in a Hollywood movie, where you're the hero and you die in glorious battle protecting your freedoms and family. But it's ok, because at least you put up a fight and credits will roll.

The reality is that you will do nothing at best, and die at worst.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

I don't think it's bad in general considering the size of the country and especially considering the fact that we have hundreds of millions of civilian owned guns (23 million sold last year, and even more sold this year already). When you compare guns to other stuff like drunk driving it shows how blown out of proportion the problem is. - CDC stats (2018) - US Firearm Homicides: 14,414 US deaths caused by drunk drive…

I would expect drunk-driving deaths to far exceed firearm homicides, and it's honestly shocking that firearm homicides are that high. I think the stats show that it's not blown out of propertion.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more rational 'New World' comparisons would be Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and guess what: very low murder, very low rates of gun ownership. Who could have imagined that British colonies who didn’t violently overthrow the British colonial government would end up being less violent overall? Also, who would have guessed that former British colonies that didn’t have millions of African slaves shipped in for…

This speculative argument falls flat in the face of actual data. More effective and regulated gun control and less access to guns is 100% consistent with less gun crime. That there was a revolution in 1777 doesn't change the fact both the UK and US were fairly equally involved in other kinds of political violence, I mean, you do realize the UK have been at war with others and themselves since the dawn of time? That t…

> More effective and regulated gun control and less access to guns is 100% consistent with less gun crime.

So what? I don't care about "less gun crime"; I care about "less violent crime".

Talking about the subset of crime, violence, death, and injury that's caused by firearms is fundamentally dishonest. You could argue by the exact same logic that the lack of passenger trains in the US reduces train suicides compared to Japan. The specific tools are not the fucking issue.

> I mean, you do realize the UK have been at war with others and themselves since the dawn of time? That they had their own 'revolution' and a Republic 100 years before the US?

Sure. For instance, England and Scotland were intermittently at war for centuries, which resulted in a lot of the people living in the English/Scottish border regions developing a particularly violent way of life. These people were a huge pain in the neck after the unification of Great Britain. So a whole lot of them got shipped across the Atlantic Ocean to America.

You know who else the British shipped to America? Violent criminals. This was one of the reasons we declared independence, actually. People think of Australia as a former penal colony, but that only started because we stopped letting them ship people here.

Who else came here? The Puritans, whose other accomplishments included such things as burning witches and violently establishing that English Republic you alluded to.

The normal, peaceful, law-abiding Brit who wasn't particularly interested in violence or religious fanaticism? Those are the guys who stayed behind in Britain.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#845

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

Look, for better or worse I think we might be better off with just no private gun ownership, but I will tell you why I think the anti-gun part of the country is so riled up:

It’s not the murder rate itself. That doesn’t matter as much to people emotionally. They know it happens, but for the most part it is so concentrated in areas people mostly want to not think about that they ignore it. I have never heard of anyone say that they want to outlaw guns because of handgun murders in the inner cities (which is obviously a problem, obviously wrong, and obviously fucked up in its own way). I think the main reasons people want guns gone is because of school shootings. And the percentages and chances here don’t play as much of a role as the fact that most people like kids and don’t want them to get shot and that it’s not the kind of tragedy you can easily write off. When some random person is murdered by some other random person I think people assume either bad luck or bad judgement. But most people aren’t willing to accept that children could have their lives cut short and that preventing this should a top priority compared to private gun ownership.

I am sympathetic to the idea that a targeted minority or an oppressed group greatly benefits from gun ownership. If the day Zimmerman followed Martin and Martin was the one with the gun then both might well be alive or at least the person being attacked would be. Or every time a woman can fight off her domestic abuser with the help of a gun. But how do you do the cost benefit analysis on that calculation? I think it’s difficult but the majority rarely thinks of the needs of a minority. On the other hand everyone thinks about children whether they want to or not.

Lastly and slightly off topic: I am baffled by the fact that mosr police officers are pro-gun. If I was afraid for my life on my job I would want the threat at least reduced if not eliminated. Outlawing private gun ownership will reduce private gun ownership and more importantly their availability to criminals who the police might apprehend. So why would they not want to have that happen?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more rational 'New World' comparisons would be Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and guess what: very low murder, very low rates of gun ownership. Who could have imagined that British colonies who didn’t violently overthrow the British colonial government would end up being less violent overall? Also, who would have guessed that former British colonies that didn’t have millions of African slaves shipped in for…

The US has the gun fetish because it has a perpetual racialized underclass, among other reasons. You're right the violence is tied to its history. But so are the guns. You cannot separate the two. As others have pointed out; personal firearms are pretty useless as a vehicle for resisting state oppression and tyranny. But they're useful for stopping slave revolts or, more contemporarily, guarding your McMansion. The p…

> The problem in the US isn't the right to bear arms. It's that the wrong people are bearing them. The militia types are the authoritarian aggressors that they themselves fantasize about resisting.

Authoritarians control institutions. What do the “wrong people” control? If the January 6 nutters had taken the capital, who would have supported them? General Milley? The national guards of DC, MD, or VA? Any of the country’s corporations or other institutions? You’re confusing the Whiskey Rebellion for the Beerhall Putsch.

Maybe give some consideration to the possibility that what’s really happening is that you’re a resident of the Capital clutching your pearls at the “threat” posed by people in District 12.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard of a defensive caliber is that it needs to be capable of immediately halting an attacker with the kinds of shots a scared defendant can pull off [0]. Not killing them immediately or eventually, but halting the attack. Plenty of gun shot wounds are capable of killing eventually even if they’re not immediately disabling, and it does you no good if your assailant eventually bleeds to death after they’ve fin…

Thank you for the detailed response. I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with". Hence small caliber, lots of noise/attempts and if - god forbid - anything connected it would still hurt/slow them. I never really contemplated a "someone intent on killing you" scenario. It isn't something I think of much and I…

> I guess my dreamed up scenarios were more vague "shooter/assailant in the area" whereby I figured I'd want to "make myself less desirable to bother with".

Generally the rule on such matters is that there is no such thing as a warning shot, both ethically and legally. For the same reason that shooting for the legs is a bad idea, bringing a lower caliber firearm to warn someone off is kind of a no-no. You should either be shooting to end the engagement, or not shooting at all.

Obviously retreating from an encounter is always the best course of action (and a legal obligation in some states) if possible.

> It is interesting that 22lr hasn't really been technologically updated.

22lr has seen tons of advancement, just not as much in the realm of terminal ballistics. There is incredibly intense competition for more accurate and consistent 22lr ammo, as this is the caliber used for a lot of olympic shooting and some increasingly popular non-olympic competitions.

Fundamentally, it's really not possible to squeeze much more energy out of 22lr. Every production cartridge has a set maximum pressure and firearms are certified for this pressure by nation specific proof houses. For 22lr the max pressure is about 72% the pressure of a 9mm[0]. Squeezing more terminal power out of this cartridge would risk catastrophic firearm damage and probably company liability.

Making matters worse is the fact that semi-automatic (e.g. handgun) firearm design changes pretty radically around or above 380ACP pressures. Above that firearms must have some sort of mechanism to delay opening until chamber pressures fall to a safe level, otherwise cartridges will potentially rupture during extraction and hurt the shooter. All 22lr pistols are of a much simpler design that improves accuracy and lowers price, but makes getting 9mm pressures into an existing 22lr handgun an impossible task. Much easier still to just start with a 9mm, since those work and are well understood.

Also, it's a rimfire cartridge, and that's undesirable for a variety of reasons I'm too tired to explain right now.

0 - 64% of the higher spec +P ammo.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#848
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

Vermont has fairly permissive guns laws, no permit necessary to buy and carry an assault weapon. murder rate is 1.8, vs 3.0 in Europe. What is it about Vermont, where you can walk around with concealed assault weapons, that makes it safer than "Europe"? Czech Republic is an exception, it's a shall issue European country. The majority of gun owners also have concealed carry permits. Homicide rate is very low, only 0.9…

Same for other gun toting states like Idaho.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#849
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

> Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided.

I’m not sure how you mean adorable and misguided.

1) If you mean it would be ineffective against a military invasion, I have to disagree. The military has never won a guerrilla war, let alone one on their own turf. Think Afghanistan on steroids with how many guns are in the states.

2) If you mean that being politically active would be far more effective though then I 100% agree.

I know some gun owners in the states, and my impression is that for some it quickly turns into standard consumerism. Maybe their first gun was for self defence, but not the 20th. They can obsess over their guns, similar to how people obsess over other gizmos like the latest iPhone etc.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for every sufficiently-large section of the world. But different places have different statistical properties. Look, my grandpa took me shooting when I was young. I remember doing target practice under a bridge when I was like 7, using a freakin' magnum revolver of all things. It was next to a very small river, and someone further downstream was trying to fish. I asked gramps "Do you think he heard us?" a…

I would say poverty has more to do with the murder rate than anything else. If you want to go and rob houses or join a gang, you'll get a gun, legally or illegally. This happens everywhere, not only where guns are legal. If you can't get a gun, you'll get a big knife or a baseball bat. The USA is rich in GDP per capita but has patches with poor people with little to lose. In many EU countries there is far less people…

> I would say poverty has more to do with the murder rate than anything else.

You'd be surprised. Historically, countries like Japan used to be much poorer than the US but still had very low murder rates.

Post reply on HN