The approval is specifically for 12 and over. Any word/guesses on when it would be available for the rest?
How young are you trying to go? Should we individually vaccinate egg and sperm cells?
FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
841–850 of 1001 posts
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#842Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't fathom how you could misinterpret a post saying "there's a difference between evidence and peer reviewed academic standards" to conclude that I've abandoned the idea of evidence entirely. I don't need an academic, peer-reviewed study to tell me that using this site is safe. I don't need one to tell me that masks are safe. It's NICE to have such things, and I'm NOT opposed to them, but they are also NOT necess…
You're attacking a straw man here, my original comment was about the lack of evidence for vaccine safety in certain understudied sub-populations. > we are in fact at a point where we can conclude that the vaccine is significantly safer than going unvaccinated You keep coming back to "vaccinated versus unvaccinated" rhetoric and using irrelevant logical reasoning to argue that we should hastily generalize safety resul…
> You [...] argue that we should hastily generalize safety results to these sub-populations
I never argued for "hasty" or "generalization."
Simple question: which sub-population are you talking about? Please exclude any sub-population where a statistically significant sample of vaccinated individuals already exists, unless your concern is limited solely to long-term side effects.
If you are concerned about long-term side effects, please cite at least one scientific study explaining why you are concerned about that PARTICULAR sub-group being vulnerable to that PARTICULAR side effect - we wouldn't want to waste time if you can't cite any scientific literature supporting your claim
(P.S. I've only made a single comment about vaccinated -vs- unvaccinated, so you might have me confused with someone else in this thread)
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#843Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where do you draw the line? Should we wait 50 years to find out if the vaccine or Covid have worse long term effects?
No, I meant differently: 9 months are plenty. Chances of infection given behavioural patterns, to be defined, × probability of damages post-infection, given demographics etc., to be defined¹ vs 100% for the chance of vaccination, × probability of damages post-vaccine (post 1 week, post 1 month, post 3 months etc.), given demographics etc., to be defined. Probably you meant that according to available data, the probab…
The whole point of clinical trials is to get statically significant numbers so that you can understand if the vaccine is safe, months after administration. It was done before the vaccine was approved.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
Now you can debate the meaning of "safe". And you can make decisions based on anecdotes. And you can say it would be nice to have better data. But that is true for most things in life. Most people go to restaurants and drive their cars on roads with reviewing far less evidence that their car and restaurant they are going to are truly safe.
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#844Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Those who are vaccinated have a significant reduction in risk of death (not to mention that the risk is very minute for young people anyway), so that's a moot point 2. Some vaccinated people have been found to carry the same levels of the virus as unvaccinated people, so stating that unvaccinated people could be increasing risk to others is also a moot point 3. Once the so called "R" rate is below one, the virus i…
1) It isn’t a moot point when vaccinated individuals need ICU beds for other emergencies, which are still happening. This isn’t a theoretical, this is happening in the Southeastern US.
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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#845Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pluuuuuusssss... we don't know the long term impact of Covid itself. People who argue against vaccines don't seem to think enough about that aspect.
Or maybe they're just arguing for the third group: people who already were infected and recovered. No need to double up on the unknown risks of you already have immunity.
Based on our current information, that's at best 33% of the population. Realistically in most countries it's about 15-20%.
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#846I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.
I'm expecting most fortune 500 companies will now mandate all employees be vaccinated, along with most colleges.
I hope this is the case but there will be a lot of antivax pushback, unfortunately.
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#847Earlier quoted context omitted.
For more context of that quote: > The Mayor will also be initiating a “Key to NYC Pass,” which is like the Covid-19 passport talked about a few months ago. It's a carrot-and-stick approach, as people will be required to show that they are vaccinated if they want to go to restaurants, gyms and other events. No vaccinations, no entrance. “If you want to participate in society fully, you’ve got to get vaccinated,” de Bl…
Do you see how this escalating though? Already concerns are being blithely dismissed, and it only starts as optional and non essential. In Australia you can see the next step already where it’s being applied to grocery stores. You have to start pushing back before it gets to that.
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#848Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So is smoking inside restaurants. But not smoking in your car or at home. There are tons of American parents who hotbox their kids with cigarette or marijuana smoke on a daily basis which not only harms them with second hand smoke but increases their chances of smoking themselves by an astronomical factor. Parents legally harm their children constantly by setting bad diet patterns (child obesity), or substance abus…
Your argument is essentially that because we don't / cannot outlaw all ways to harm others, we cannot justify making other laws to avoid harming others? You are also strawmanning to assume that laws that punish bad parenting would immediately skip to the state raising the kids.
It's not an argument but a question. Should we try to minimize harm in society at the expense of individual freedoms, and if so how far do we take it? Having the state raise kids is being seriously discussed in places like Harvard Law Review as an ideological harm reduction measure. Should any freedom that could possibly be abused to harm others (such as right to own a gun, right to refuse a vaccine, right to own and drive a car, etc.) be eventually outlawed, leaving only freedoms that let you harm yourself?
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#849Earlier quoted context omitted.
My problem with this "we just have to wait N units of time" approach is: what do we do instead meanwhile? What's the alternative?
3.2 serious outcomes per 100,000 infections. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628...
Hey, cherry picker, how is your business going?
> and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in > (3.2 per 100,000)
Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine
#850Earlier quoted context omitted.
FDA approved or not, they cannot be sued for vaccine drama. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c... Claims can only go by "vaccine court" (yes that's a thing according to Wikipedia)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen...
From that Wikipedia article, pharma companies paid a total of 2.5 billions in damages from 2006 to 2020. Seems hard to say that they can't be sued, it's just a different court system.
Pfizer secret contracts with governments (at least in Latin America) force to accept the non suitable nature of the agreement against the company. The receptor of the vaccine signs a consent of declining to demand outside his own country, and the government signs to decline demands against Pfizer.It is no one's fault land in your body.