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Apple Introduces AirTag

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Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#841

Post by dev_tty01 »

SllX wrote: post #543
SilverRed wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still can tell if someone is tracking you. I'm not aware that Apple allows in any way for an apple watch or iphone to monitor the location without making the holder aware.

I don’t disagree, but this is not any comfort to the children of tech savvy parents. They’ll be tracked and they’ll know they’re being tracked and they won’t have recourse. AirTags are kind of irrelevant here.

And the problem is? At what point did it become wrong for parents to know where their children are? It's called responsible parenting.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#842

Post by jwr »

oasisbob wrote: post #586
calsy wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia roughly 20 kids per week present to emergency having swallowed or inserted a button battery and in several cases many have tragically died. It is an agonising death over a period of days/weeks for the child and horrible for the parents to witness. Many times both the parents and medical professionals don't realise what is actually happening to the child until it is too late. There is growing support for…

Button batteries and neodymium magnets both are pretty horrifying when taken internally. I would be curious to see how Apple protects the battery compartment of the AirTag, I'm sure they thought about this. eg, my car key fob needs to be forcefully pulled apart into three pieces before it even hints there's a battery inside.

> neodymium magnets

This. I personally know a parent who lost a child this way. The worst scenario imaginable: the child swallowed a magnet, and then another one a day later. The magnets brought together two sections of their intestine. By the time the problem was serious enough to warrant a visit to the hospital, it was too late.

Be very, very careful with small magnets.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#843

Post by fma »

andreagrandi wrote: post #836

While I appreciate the anti stalking feature I'm not sure it would be compatible with a common use case: suppose I attach one to my backpack because I want to be able to track it in case I loose it. Fine. But... at this point I either always bring the backpack with me whenever I leaver my home or it will start buzzing as soon as I'm far away.

On the flip side, if you have AirTags on your keys, you always need to bring your phone even if you go for a quick errand.

Or you go on vacation, give some keys to a friend/neighbor to dog sit, house sit...and it starts beeping.

Good intentions - but lots of questions for sure.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#844

Post by adrusi »

Toutouxc wrote: post #266
munk-a wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually rather disappointed that it isn't using a passive RFID chip and multiple base stations to triangulate item location - that would probably bring the price for the actual tags down to something stupidly cheap.

Is this actually doable? I always thought RFID is unusable at those distances.

No. I looked into this pretty extensively a few years ago. Ideally you could use semi-passive RFID, which only broadcasts a signal when its identifying signal is detected. But these still need a power source, and batteries are not cheap, only get so small, and don't hold a charge forever, so I don't think you can get the cost per tag for comsumers in such a system much below $10.

At that point, I think making them $25 and having them broadcast every 30 seconds so that they can be found anywhere in the world if someone walks by them with an iPhone is an obviously better solution.

Of course there are wacky solutions, such as using autonomous drones as mobile base stations to find fully passive RFID tags as a home inventory solution. But that introduces a whole host of issues.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#845

Post by fma »

geoduck14 wrote: post #830
fiznool wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I have three small children and had no idea of the dangers these batteries pose. We seem to be changing button batteries every couple of weeks or so, they are in a number of sound books and toys we have around the house. I will be sure to take extra care with them after reading that article. It’s every parent’s worst nightmare.

Serious question: what is the risk, aside from any other "foreign object"? Does the battery leak?

Chemical reaction can burn a hole in your esophagus.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#846

Post by cnlevy »

geoduck14 wrote: post #830
fiznool wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I have three small children and had no idea of the dangers these batteries pose. We seem to be changing button batteries every couple of weeks or so, they are in a number of sound books and toys we have around the house. I will be sure to take extra care with them after reading that article. It’s every parent’s worst nightmare.

Serious question: what is the risk, aside from any other "foreign object"? Does the battery leak?

According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell#Accidental_ingesti... the battery's anode creates an electric current with the digestive tract's fluids that produces caustic soda which can burn through the oesophagus in as little as 2 hours.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#847

Post by BoorishBears »

angry_octet wrote: post #747
BoorishBears wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to? GSM radios have gotten tiny. Think literally any innocuous item and it can be fitted with a tracker. Even a hairbrush: http://www.mccalltech.net/images/0TrackBrush.jpg

The limitation of any tracker is battery lifetime. The AirTag circumvents this by only using low power transmission and the network of all iPhones and iPads in the world, which then relay via their own wifi/4G. What is certain is that we'll see sophisticated modifications to AirTags that (1) disable the beep, (2) disable anti-stalking. Theoretically remote attestation and self-disabling anti-tamper could be used, but…

"Holy Grail of surveillance espionage"... maybe the holy grail alarmist statements.

Why are firmware modifications for this "certain" first off?

And what modifications allow this to work as designed without setting off anti-stalking? If you somehow change the ID it's reporting which afaik is a signed value anyways, how are you going to get access to it's location?

If you don't disable anti-stalking then this is no better than run of the mill GPS trackers which can already run for days to weeks

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#848

Post by ghaff »

jbverschoor wrote: post #803
pupdogg wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not intimidated by NDAs, devices like this can be built for approx. $15/ea. or less (based on your volume) with a battery option. A CR2032 will yield approx. 6-7 years of life for the tag as long as it’s setup to emit once every 30-60s. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple’s cost is in $1-2 per device with the battery.

You can buy complete bluetooth beacons including battery for under $7 in the EU. They can easily be built for a few bucks. Good profits, and I expect many people will have 5-10 devices, because they're so cheap

I played with some BLE beacons a few years back. I honestly didn't find them very useful for finding things--though that was probably some older Bluetooth version.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#849

Post by BoorishBears »

kelnos wrote: post #677
BoorishBears wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as you can literally give someone a USB cable that tracks them, I don't think AirTags are enabling anything particularly new: https://www.walmart.com/ip/OURLEEME-Car-GPS-Tracker-Vehicle-...

That USB cable doesn't work unless it's plugged into something that has power.

Yes? Offer someone a USB cable and you've given them a GPS tracker that will show their home location

But of course as I linked in another comment, trackers have been fit into anything and everything now. Hairbrushes, random trinkets like clocks, even a phone charging brick itself

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#850

Post by ghaff »

kelnos wrote: post #668
avipars wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy that it's user-replaceable ... $100 for 4 of them sets you back a good amount... especially if you would have otherwise had to toss them after their internal batteries died

Given that the target market is "Apple customers", I don't think $25/year/device is much of a burden. Regardless, though, I don't like the idea of a device that's designed to be landfilled every year; replaceable batteries are the right way to go here.

For something that I hopefully won't really need on a regular basis, I'd hesitate to buy something that was essentially a $25 annual subscription.
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