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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#841

Post by epinephrinios »

72deluxe wrote: post #558
Shorel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually something that Bjarne Stroustrup addressed when talking about C++: There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses. In the case of cryptocurrencies, as soon as a cryptocurrency has any important percentage of use, these transactions are not confirmed in seconds anymore, and transaction fees starts to grow up. No one is really using PoS right now, so let'…

I remember Stroustrup also saying how much he detested Bitcoin in his keynote from a few years ago, where he says it uses as much power as Switzerland and was saddened to know it had been written in C++.

Obligatory: "Ok boomer."

I use C++ everyday and I am still shocked about how user-hostile it is. I don't buy the usual "backwards compatible" and zero-cost abstraction canned arguments. I identified a lot of missed opportunities for simplification... I wonder how much energy we wasted by trial and error while writing/compiling useless C++ programs /s

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#842

Post by epinephrinios »

Ruphin wrote: post #370
rfd4sgmk8u wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Longest running network. * Largest network by nodes. * Largest network hashrate / Most energy consumed. * Simple Satoshi Codebase. * Most accessible - blockchain delivered via satellite! * One can run a node on a RPi. Requires 351G storage for full chain. Eth is TB's (and growing), requires SSD, fast CPU, etc. You are not running ETH nodes at home. * Most decentralized * Most reliable

I am running ETH nodes at home, on RPis. They are even participating in the (future) consensus model through PoS. I'm a fan of Bitcoin, and I'm not sure why the random need to criticize Ethereum here. Bitcoin has enough reasons to be useful, no need to be insecure about other projects being useful too.

I am also running a couple of validators at home without special hardware.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#843

Post by anoncake »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #801
anoncake wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In theory if all btc miners used only renewables, the price of renewables would drop, and become more affordable for others, and the net impact on the environment would be positive. No. If demand rises, so do prices. Not the other way round.

Not if your goods are infinite. There’s an infinite amount of sunlight and wind, if demand goes up, more tools/breakthroughs in tech will be made and the costs will drop dramatically. See battery tech and solar panels lately. Only if we hit a hard resource and tech barrier will we not be able to move forward.

Even if we assume sunlight and wind are infinite, the labour needed to harness it is not. Else energy would be free by now.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#844

Post by anoncake »

silentsea90 wrote: post #734
anoncake wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have it (on your own) but you try. > BTC doesn't concentrate power, it tilts the balance in favor of a just system where value isn't plundered at a whim. No, the value is "plundered" by a democratically elected government. You don't like it? Vote against it. Or work to fix your system of government if it's too broken for that. But don't try to make the policies you don't like impossible. And yes, unlike BTC…

What part of your belief system is violated if the nation state lost power over currencies? Democracy will still prevail in the alternative I am suggesting, it will just be defanged from a certain viewpoint. I suggest reading the history of money. The current system is an aberration. Historically, with gold as the currency/gold standard, nation states couldn't inflate money away.

If democracy is defanged, it hasn't prevailed.

> I suggest reading the history of money. The current system is an aberration. Historically, with gold as the currency/gold standard, nation states couldn't inflate money away.

I'm not a reactionary and I don't think you are either. So how is this an argument? We got rid of the gold standard for good reasons.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#845

Post by jf22 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #838
jf22 wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any answer here, just speculation and more questions.

> Could we do this without burning more energy than entire countries? Based on my (arguably poor) ability to predict the future the answer seems to be a "No, crypto energy consumption will always be more than most countries". Other people like the ETH and Nano developers seem to believe the answer is "Yes it is possible to be more efficient with crypto mining". However, I don't know their stance on "Will the energy c…

Ok, so we are going to burn a lot of energy because we don't like the current monetary system and haven't explored any alternatives at all.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#846

Post by jasonlaramburu »

unkulunkulu wrote: post #824
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, that is why on a long enough timeline someone will end up holding the bag.

A lot of people are comparing crypto to some kind of ponzi pyramid thing, ie a scam where some people will get rich but a lot will suffer. But isn’t that true about everything, ie smarter/more lucky ones will find ways to increase their wealth and those making suboptimal decisions will get broke? It looks like only when it gets obvious how the scheme works it becomes a scam.

The challenge with crypto is it is so easily manipulated/wash traded by those with large holdings. So those who are later to the game (with smaller holdings) are at a systemic disadvantage.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#847

Post by CountDrewku »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #839
CountDrewku wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with whether WE HAVE to believe what they say. It has to do with the fact that their status gives their words more power. Whether YOU personally believe them is irrelevant. Many people DO take his words for fact just because of who is and that creates an issue. This is exactly how celebrities sway public thinking on many issues and then down the road certain politicians get voted in and then what…

If your primary point is that mainstream news isn't educational, then I agree. Most news is entertainment, pure and simple. The more people realize this and the sooner, the better.

My point was that celebrity status gives the appearance of truth. People like Bill Gates that have tons of money and are famous are able to sway more people. Whether they're experts or not doesn't matter because their fame will convince many people of what they're saying.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#848

Post by danlugo92 »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #129
danlugo92 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It enables people cut off (in one way or another) from traditional banking to actually have an account. You want to kill bitcoin provide a real alternative else it is most definitely not "worthless" as you say?

No it does not. Especially not with bitcoin. Nobody is paying anything with bitcoin. Are you going to pay for your groceries in your store that doesn't take bitcoin, by adding 30 dollars of fees and having it clear in three days ?

Do you pay for your groceries with stocks or treasury bonds?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#849

Post by 72deluxe »

epinephrinios wrote: post #841
72deluxe wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Stroustrup also saying how much he detested Bitcoin in his keynote from a few years ago, where he says it uses as much power as Switzerland and was saddened to know it had been written in C++.

Obligatory: "Ok boomer." I use C++ everyday and I am still shocked about how user-hostile it is. I don't buy the usual "backwards compatible" and zero-cost abstraction canned arguments. I identified a lot of missed opportunities for simplification... I wonder how much energy we wasted by trial and error while writing/compiling useless C++ programs /s

OK boomer isn't obligatory.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#850

Post by Godel_unicode »

tekknik wrote: post #803
Godel_unicode wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly a lot of people who use it for tax evasion, to be sure. One interesting tangible example that this problem exists is the recent removal of large bank notes by the Indian Central Bank, which was done expressly to combat tax evasion and money laundering. The fact that lots of people in India have had serious issues because they were unbanked does seem to indicate that there's a sizable population of…

> My personal belief is that the number one use is for money laundering... Have you ever experienced a natural disaster? One thing you realize quite quickly is that your debit card is useless. That doesn’t mean transactions stop, people are still buying and selling, those with cash at least. If there’s runs on banks, infrastructure outages, etc, those relying entirely on debit and other payment cards won’t be buying…

Do you seriously think that even a large minority of cash transactions are somehow related to natural disasters...?
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