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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#841

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When things work that way, then great! But a number of high-profile publishers (Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA) force you to use their app platform even if you purchased the game on Steam. I bought Far Cry 5 on Steam, and running it first launches Ubisoft's launcher, which usually needs to update (why????), then I can launch the game. GTA Online freebie in Epic Store, first has to start Rockstar Social Club (which also usuall…

The situation degraded so far that it actually gives me a benefit. Ubisoft and EA now offer cheap subscriptions, so I never actually have to buy a game from them again; I just pay a low price once a year for a month or two of access. Why wait for Assassins' Creed: Valhalla at 75% off when I can play it now for less (and it is still cheaper in the rare cases I want to play something a second time). EA even seem to be…

I think its actually driven by marketing wanting to control messaging over their channel. Having little more than tiny little text and picture boxes to try and sell you stuff probably drives them nuts

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#842

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No, it really doesn’t, except if looked through the most superficial lens.

Exactly. It works better.

Great! Then use that ffs, and stop imposing your values on people who make different choices.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#843

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In a way, the Apple fans don't matter. The DOJ can fix this single-handedly and force Apple to open up. We need to speak up now more than ever. The heat against Apple is turning up, and with all this pressure and focus we can frame our argument with crystal clarity and make it LOUD . Tim Sweeny, DHH, and plenty of other luminaries are carrying this argument forward. We need to join them in unison.

Why, though? Why does everything need to become like Android? Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple? Assimilate or perish. I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly.

Apple is following in the footsteps of fallen titans. It should come as no surprise when the law comes down hard on the worlds most valuable company.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#844
post #12

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One of the absolutely obvious hypocritical things for me is that they don't allow anyone to say in their app that "Apple gets 30% of this fee" That's the equivalent of the IDFA message for Facebook. Which everyone will see, its worded in a very negative way, and it's a must.

The IDFA warning is useful to the consumer. How is the business contract between Apple and the software developer of interest to the consumer?

It will likely bring down the price by suggesting alternative payment options.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#845

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When has the market been given a choice? The choice now is between Apple and Android ecosystems. The best Android phones have comparable hardware to the iPhone, so people are choosing based on software, price, and status.

Why not force Apple to behave ethically, on top of it? Give the people even more choice! Clearly there are strong arguments for the iphone if people are willing to give up software freedom to own one. As an Android user I'd love to hop over and find out what the buzz is about. But of course, I can't justify buying a computer that I can't even install software of my choice on. This is a great place for regulatory inte…

Why do you want all ecosystems to conform to your beliefs and implement your vision of how choice need to be made?

Librem 5 or Pinephone is a thing as well.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#846

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> First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Don't see how this is necessarily a bad thing. It's a general security notification. > Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Again, how is this a deterrent? How many times a day do you have to accept the new changes? We've already established that the official s…

Arguably the market has already decided the behavior they want by buying iPhones in the first place. Apple didn't suddenly change their behavior. This is how the app store has always behaved. Everyone had that information available to them prior to making the purchase. How can you be sure that Apple customers don't actually want a walled garden with a single app store that is tightly controlled by Apple? After all if…

The market has decided on Standard Oil! What's the problem?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#847
post #211

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How is Epic fighting to reduce Apple's cut of app store proceeds (30%!) bad for customers? At worst it's customer-neutral, at best it could reduce prices.

if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.

>if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.

Can you provide some reasoning behind that. What should I like, so I can dislike uPlay in the first place?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#848

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Except as soon as it becomes a remotely feasible action (with simple instructions) for the general consumer, a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-gua…

> the market has spoken. And it's happy. When has the market been given a choice? App Stores have been the only way to get software on iPhones since they were first released. I can't even install an alternative OS on my iPhone, and jailbreaking seems to have become less accessible now too. How do we know what experience is more competitive if competition isn't allowed to blossom? Maybe the market would value an alter…

> If the market wants this kind of experience, then surely it will continue to exist no?

That is the battle Epic is currently fighting, to remove the ability for anyone on the market to offer this option.

By requiring everyone to allow third-party app stores, you effectively remove the option for a fully curated experience. Because as mentioned, once a few popular apps start demanding usage of the third-party app store, consumers will no longer be able to choose a fully-curated experience without foregoing those services. And that will lead down an inevitable loss of privacy, increased demanding of permissions for marketing, etc - all of which Apple has fairly successfully fought back solely through their centrally-moderated experience. We all lived through the early days of Android before the built-in flashlight when you had flashlight apps demanding full permissions to monitor everything you do.

It is, in a sense, another "paradox of tolerance" - you have to restrict user freedoms in one area (what users are allowed to install) to protect them in another area (predatory developers). Apple's walled garden is the only thing keeping those marketing departments at bay, their restrictions on app-developer (and ultimately end-user) freedom are what protects your privacy. Similar perhaps to how GNU and BSD regard "freedoms" differently - BSD regards developer freedom as paramount, while GNU regards user freedom as paramount, and these are not quite the same things. While BSD protects developer freedom to release proprietary code on top of BSD code, GNU restricts developer freedom and forces that to be released under GNU license as well. And ultimately that translates into a loss of user freedom in some sense - surely users would like the ability to have ZFS distributed alongside the Linux kernel, but GNU restricts that freedom in furtherance of the big-picture.

Ironic as it is, the Apple Store is the GNU of this situation. They are willing to burn some specific cases of application developers who are not willing to accept the licensing terms, in order to protect the big-picture of user freedoms (privacy). Android is the "BSD", where they are more concerned about developer freedom than user freedom. And the loss of specific apps is analogous to the friction between mixing source under copyleft license with other open-source licenses.

If you want third-party app stores, Android exists. This is about Epic fighting to take away the option to have a moderated, quality-controlled experience and eroding the ability of users to maintain their privacy.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#849
post #55

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Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way So Apple is allowed to get its own way, 100% of the time, no questions asked, what they want is what they get end of (by virtue of holding all the cards and owning the platform they dictate the rules on) How about no? You can play by your rules in your sandbox, but Epic has a right t…

> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" someth…

How being locked in apple's ecosystem good for the customers.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#850

> We as legislators need to ensure that these platforms who act as gatekeepers in the digital market have to respect a predefined set of rules in order to guarantee fair competition and balanced market powers,” he said in a statement. One of these rules is (hopefully), if i purchase a hardware gadget, all of its capabilities are my possession. Restricting the access on purpose is frault. Epic's case is just a consequ…

Good God, just buy an Android. You people act like Apple’s shoving iPhones down your throat.

It is about my family, friends and people from business.
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