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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#841

Post by syshum »

eejit_compiler wrote: post #328
syshum wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they banned those they deemed to have wrong think from Social Media, crying Build your own Social media, it is a private company... So they did, but the totalitarians were not satisfied, so then they banned them from app stores users used to connect and find the new service... crying Build your own service it is a private company So they did, but the totalitarian were not satisfied so they banned them from the…

As a counterexample: The Pirate Bay have successfully dealt with this sort of thing for many years, and they were subject to much harsher and more sustained censorship. Including legal attacks by various nation states. Is it really totalitarianism in this case? Or, just some private companies inconveniencing people by choosing not to do business with them?

While I applaud Pirate Bay for the technological ingenuity that is not an counter example in anyway

The Pirate Bay is more or less a link register today after having been pushed to the point where they can not even sustain hosting torrent files, they can only host mag links.

This is far cry from running an actual platform or business on the internet.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#842

Post by croon »

Taurenking wrote: post #769
standardUser wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen poll after poll for a couple decades showing that Fox News viewers have a weaker grip on the facts than other news consumers. And we've seen that the conservative movement in the US will cling to ideas that aren't embraced by any other major parties in the Western world. And that most Republicans will accept a lie like "the steal" with no evidence, and even despite ample evidence to the contrary. I don't w…

Ah, yes, the famous polls which predicted a 99/1 landslide win for Hillary

A dice has an 83% chance of not landing on 6. It still, at times, lands on 6.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#843

Post by syshum »

ineedasername wrote: post #559
syshum wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they banned those they deemed to have wrong think from Social Media, crying Build your own Social media, it is a private company... So they did, but the totalitarians were not satisfied, so then they banned them from app stores users used to connect and find the new service... crying Build your own service it is a private company So they did, but the totalitarian were not satisfied so they banned them from the…

Exercise of free market principles by platforms booting people/entities that violate their ToS isn't totalitarian.

This would be true if the ToS was applied evenly with out political bias

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#844

Post by rorykoehler »

skzv wrote: post #140
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> But political affiliation is not a protected class. Classes that are protected now, were not protected at some point. I think the discussion revolves not around whether political affiliation is a protected class, but whether it should be, in a sense- whether what is going on is good or bad for society, not whether or not it is illegal. You are entitled to believe that it is good, of course.

Protected class should. be reserved to things you cannot change. People don't choose to be black, gay, trans etc. They choose their political affiliation and even their religion.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#845

Post by blPanx »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #441
imperio59 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy this argument as the law currently stands, but this is also such a moral double standard (Colorado bakery for instance). Also, how far do we go with this reasoning? Stripe and PayPal refuse service so they're supposed to "Go build their own" (it costs billions to create a new service like stripe or PayPal that can compare). AWS shut you down? Build your own data center... (Again, costs millions or billions). Wh…

Actually I think you might have the Colorado case misrepresented here. The baker was ruled in favor due to objecting based on his religious beliefs. Part of this was that he was okay with baking a cake for the gay couple but NOT one that had certain messaging that would violate his faith. [1] If the baker had altogether refused to bake a cake for the gay couple, it would have been discrimination on a protected class.…

Indeed he offered the couple any other cake than a custom wedding cake with two men figures on top.

His custom cakes are small works of art. If he'd be forced to create one against his beliefs, why not force a far left painter to paint a favorable portrait of Trump?

And indeed this situation has little to do with Silicon Valley corporations offering generic services to millions of people. They are like supermarkets, who should not be allowed to refuse service to anyone.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#846

Post by rorykoehler »

roenxi wrote: post #739
tessierashpool wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the evidence for this? > > ...this is a not a mob out for literal blood. No, this was 100% a mob out for literal blood. There is a STAGGERING amount of evidence. There's video of a large crowd of the rioters chanting "hang Mike Pence!" They erected a gallows with a noose outside the Capitol. There's video of people yelling that they came to get Pence and Pelosi. Squads of milita wore tactical armor and helm…

> No, this was 100% a mob out for literal blood. There is a STAGGERING amount of evidence. 100%? Literally all of them? Every one? I'm not looking for a metaphorical response here. Which parts of your response are backed actual evidence and which parts are assumptions based on your instincts and filling in blanks?

A mob is a singular. When you think with your brain is every single neuron involved?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#847

Post by syshum »

ketamine__ wrote: post #401
incrudible wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is divise and it will backfire. Soon there will have to be a separate everything for Republicans and Democrats. Chances are that Trump is going to own a big part of it. That is why Trump is not on Gab or Parler, because he will compete with them.

Except Twitter is for Republicans too. And many of them like Bill Kristol turned against Trump because of his behavior. Many that still support Trump have managed to stay on Twitter because they act responsibly. The problem with Parker and Gab is that they are only for the problem users. In fact, in an interview with Kara Swisher the CEO said that they have panels of volunteers that judge whether a post should be rem…

Republican is a political party, not a ideaology.

Bill Kristol is an Authoritarian, Pro-War, corporatist Republican that does not share much in way of ideology with many social conservatives in the Political party.

Bill Kristol is the type of Republican that turned me away from the Republican party

Bill Kristol is closer in political alignment with the Authoritarian Left, than he is with the Libertarian right which is why he is allowed to stay on Twitter.

Twitter is for Authoritarians / Totalitarians

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#848

Post by rorykoehler »

hilbertseries wrote: post #245
crx07 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand it feels completely appropriate and even deserved. On the other, yes, this is unfortunately a path to a very serious totalitarian issue. Situations like this one underscore the future importance of cryptocurrencies. Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprison…

> Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprisonment or violence against a handful of executives. How is this a good faith argument. You’ve jumped a situation where somewhere is being deplatformed and banned from various services for encouraging violence. To someone will us…

It pretty easy to see how a law or norm implemented for just reasons can be co-opted for nefarious ones. The US has been doing this for as long as I've been alive. Patriot Act?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#849

Post by cambalache »

Jochim wrote: post #839
nmfisher wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were cut off from social media, payment processors, web hosts and mail providers, would you practically be able to launch a political campaign?

If society has decided that your political campaign is so toxic that no one wants to do business with you, should private entities be forced to deal with you if you are not a protected class? Parler being booted is society's reaction to a movement that has been getting more extreme for the last 5 years. I'll note the irony that many of the people complaining about companies refusing to deal with Parler are the same p…

Who is society? The coastal rich liberal tech owners?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#850

Post by azangru »

dataflow wrote: post #127
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> Stripe and Twitter are pretty clearly the latter. They might be the latter, but I wouldn't consider it obvious. Regarding social media, we've gotten to the point where even US Visa applications ask for social media handles (and I understand they consider it as a negative datum if you don't provide one). And we're also at the point where some companies won't provide you with respectable service unless you @ them on…

> And we're also at the point where some companies won't provide you with respectable service unless you @ them on social media.

Could you give an example of this? Sounds fascinating.

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