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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#841
post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities [...] Our generation is reinventing the wheel here, our ancestors had exactly the same problems with the power, water, gas, telephone and rail networks (at some point in time, all those were unregulated and privately owned) and did exactly that. Critical infrastructure needs to be heavily, regulated if not outright publicly owned.

I disagree. Facebook, Twitter and Google are ephemeral utilities. They will probably be replaced by another company. Privatizing them will just let someone else come along and Embrace, extend, extinguish them.

> They will probably be replaced by another company

Nobody has a chance, but different reasons in each company:

* What we have seen with Google - For a search engine, the more traffic you get the better results you can give (you can A-B test different algorithms for different queries, and optimise results). For new entrants they need to be popular before they can be better, which is a catch-22. Additionally Google has significant revenue which is very profitable because of it's monopoly position, and it can use this to reinvest in search technology to further widen the gap. It's going to take more than 2 people in a garage to beat modern Google at search!

* For a social network, Facebook buy out any potential competition when it's gaining traction to further solidify their monopoly. See WhatsApp, Instagram, Friend.ly e.t.c.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#842
post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

Trouble is you are privileged enough to be able to afford two phones. For many families, even a $300 device is a significant expense. So if your approach was the only approach, only the rich would have privacy.

Thankfully his approach is not the only approach - just don't use WhatsApp! I never have despite the pleadings of my friends to use it.

If they can't be bothered to email or send an SMS to me or use Signal or video call via the multitude of alternative messaging services (Duo, FaceTime, Skype, Signal etc. etc.) I don't think they're that bothered about being my friend are they?

If their friendship hinges on me using a specific mobile app, that's a shallow friendship.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be possible unless you live in Germany, just follow this guide [0]. If in a EU country, I wonder if you could also submit a data subject access request (I'm not too familiar on GDPR). [0] https://faq.whatsapp.com/android/chats/how-to-save-your-chat...

Why wouldn't it be possible if you live in Germany?

On iOS you can't export chats anymore if you're located in Germany.

https://ga.de/news/digitale-welt/gericht-verbietet-whatsapp-...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#844

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I can cut out WhatsApp from professional use no problem.

There is no way to cut WhatsApp from casual/family use in Europe.

Schools, kindergartens, mechanics, contractors, plumbers everyone uses it.

The problem is that WhatsApp is the easiest method to share photos on mobile.

If you do not have WhatsApp your plumber can not send you a picture of pipes they fixed. How do you work around that?

Other parents are using WhatsApp for organizing out of school activities. Again, there is no way to go full Stallman here...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#845
post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Carrier. Modern SMS could have been great, but Carrier didn't want to lose the however minimal revenue they had with SMS. ( Not every countries has unlimited SMS across all Network and across the world ) Or Blame MSN, the Instant Messenger, when Microsoft refuse to admit defeat to the Smartphone platform. So WhatsApp took over in EU ( I believe iMessages or SMS is still popular in France ), UK, SEA, Brazil, Hon…

I think iMessage took off, because you don't realise it's not SMS. Open the Messages app, type a message, if there's an iDevice in the other end, BOOM, iMessage. Where iMessage fails is when the device in the other end isn't an Apple device, or perhaps the contact previously used an iPhone, then fallback to SMS is troublesome. Most of my familymembers will send an "SMS"... except it's via iMessage, but nobody knows o…

I have this problem. I use an Android phone, but have a Mac and iPad. My mum has no idea how to send an SMS to me so will send me messages on iMessage that I don't see for weeks because I haven't used the iPad or Mac (been working on Windows for a while writing code).

Infuriating.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#846

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Ditched it about 2 years ago. And man, it's so hard! Literally everybody uses it here in the Netherlands as well. I'm getting strange looks every day when people hear I don't use the platform. It's horrendous. I also really fear for the moment where I've to tell a nice girl I met that I don't use the platform, and that we should use X other platform instead. I can imagine that to be a letdown or to be weird. That's i…

I got used to the strange looks. I got the strange looks when people heard I didn't use Facebook. If you asked them to sign up to a website on the Internet that was popular in your circles just so you could be friends, they'd refuse, eg. "please sign up to basschat.co.uk because all my friends like bass guitars".

If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't it?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#847
post #695

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

> but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It is possible, but difficult. You may lose access to some groups, but you can't have everything you want without some sacrifice. Personally, I'm leaving WhatsApp. Yes, my family and friends will be a bit annoyed about the hassle of contacting me separately, but so be it.

What hassle would that be? They could send you SMS or call you.

Would they really find that too difficult? The mind boggles.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#849
post #676
post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would force people to use better alternatives such as Signal or Telegram.

If you need to force people to use alternatives it's because they are not much better to begin with. I've used the Signal app and it's a bug fest. Telegram is not even encrypted by default and there is no option for encrypted groups.

> Telegram is not even encrypted by default and there is no option for encrypted groups.

Friendly reminder that encryption is more than E2E-encryption despite what certain people on HN thinks.

Telegram is encrypted point-to-point by default. Same as banks, modern mail etc.

Can we stop spreading technical misinformation now, please? There's plenty of other issues with Telegram and if we stop crying wolf over the neighbors grand danois people might actually believe us when there is an actual wolf.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#850

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

That's not true, I live in West Europe and I never used Whatsapp in my life. There are always alternatives to get informed here.
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