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No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

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Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#841

Post by orthecreedence »

inglor_cz wrote: post #770
xen2xen1 wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ridiculous treadmill of people saying UBI is going to work despite all evidence to the contrary, apparently a long, long time..

Citizens of rich oil sheikhdoms in the Gulf have had de-facto UBI, and a high one, for a long time, even though the formalities were a bit muddled. In practice, if you were lucky enough to be born as a Saudi or Qatari citizen, your needs would be covered. It did not lead to any explosion of creativity, arts and science there. People are morbidly obese and spend their money on gambling, drugs and sex. I am not very op…

Capitalism + UBI = still capitalism. Of course people are fat and lazy, there's an entire economic apparatus convincing them to be. This is why I prefaced the entire point with "abolish capitalism."

If you were financially independent, what would you do or build? I know I'd never stop producing useful things.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#842

Post by perfmode »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #25

I am not religious but labourers in the vineyard stuck with me from school: The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble(D) against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they…

i’m afraid you’ve missed the point of this teaching

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#843

Post by BoorishBears »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #805
BoorishBears wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the court of public opinion what makes you run away from someone coming at you with a knife?! Is a compelling article using stinging quotes what makes you think a knife coming at you is going to be a bad thing? They're completely non-comparable concepts. It's such an embarrassingly lazy strawman I can't believe you bothered to waste words on it, and it's silly I should have to respond to it. Innocent until proven…

> Someone running at you with a knife? Where the hell does public opinion come into it? Look, you decided to build your entire argument on this extreme form of innocent-until-proven-guilty-nonsense. So I took an extreme example to demonstrate to you that your position was too strong. Let me try to explain in more detail: if you must assume that "everyone is innocent" until they are proven guilty in a court of law, th…

> Look, you decided to build your entire argument on this extreme form of innocent-until-proven-guilty-nonsense.

This is complete and utter nonsense. In your own damn comment you're saying:

"For what it's worth, I think the most likely explanation for the stuff found is that he was geeking out some harmless experiments."

In your own goddamn comment you're saying your primary thought is this was innocent experimentation.

When someone is running at you with a knife is the thought "this person is going to harm me" a tertiary thought?

You realize it's not illegal to own any of the materials he had or to experiment with them? The reckless endangerment charge is not just for having them but for having a box catch fire after storing it near a stove?

Your entire comment is essentially "I have no objection to anything you actually said I said but I still want to build a strawman to tear down"

I mean

> This was ammonium nitrate (among other stuff). Ammonium nitrate is used for fertilizer and explosives.

Where the HELL did you see him have Ammonium Nitrate? Don't tell me you read POTASSIUM Nitrate... literally saltpeter you can order of Amazon right now with next day shipping... and thought it was AN. It'd just drive home how precious little you know of the topic and hand and how your serious of comments literally is just concern-baiting that we're jumping way too quickly to treat an innocent person as innocent...

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#844

Post by shermanmccoy »

unishark wrote: post #99
shermanmccoy wrote: post #49

I think people initially work on some of these projects, at least in part, to beef up their CV and make themselves more hirable. Every second tech job advertisement these days brainlessly asks you about your 'open source contributions'.

Yes I've always found this off-putting. People in HR departments are literally earning six figure salaries in return for making job ads advising people to do a bunch of unpaid labor which, by the way, the company benefits from.

How many times in an interview has anyone even showed anything beyond a superficial level of interest in your hobby project? Just mindless box ticking

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#845

Post by BoorishBears »

salamimonger wrote: post #839
BoorishBears wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're clearly missing the point, if you've read so many of my comments then you've seen my point about the raspberry pi... The point is laypeople don't know what bombs or basic electronics look like. And why should they when there are pictures of TV shows using CPU coolers to represent bombs and computer power supplies to represent hard drives ? > Anyone who actually takes a look at the photos of what the "clock" lo…

See, here's the thing. If I make comments implicitly about going to shoot up the neighborhood school, even though I didn't do it yet, do you presume me innocent and leave me alone? No, it's going to be investigated and I'll likely get a nice greeting from some men in black soon after. This wasn't some genius, novel clock that kid invented. He put the internals of a clock into a very specific kind of pencil case to br…

> If I make comments implicitly about going to shoot up the neighborhood school, even though I didn't do it yet, do you presume me innocent and leave me alone?

If you don't make those comments to me, and a news story is making the call that your comments were about shooting up a school, I'll presume you're innocent.

That's literally what this is about. You're not an investigator, you're not sitting on the case files for every story you see. No one is expecting you to have the same standards as a court for what guilty is, but you should still internalize some concept of innocent until proven guilty

Because the news can, and will, and does paint people as criminals when they did nothing wrong. Now a days literally all it takes is saying "so and so person was arrested for allegedly committing so and so crime".

That's it.

People don't need any more proof than that, and the fact that this entire conversation is happening when the investigation into the materials was almost 2 months ago by an NYPD Counterterrorism unit and the FBI, yet this guy is still walking around is pretty damn strong evidence that nothing more came of it, should be proof.

Tour standard of guilty should be much more than a simple news story.

A news story mentioning saltpeter and prepper books is nothing. The kind of people who experiment with saltpeter are exactly the kinds of people to read those books out of interest, not some sort of malicious plan to commit crimes.

-

Also this is an aside but...

> So don't tell me that no one thought it was an actual bomb. That doesn't matter.

That's literally the crux of the matter. That's literally all that matters. That no one thought it was an actual bomb, and he didn't act like it was an actual bomb.

If both teachers immediately realized it wasn't a bomb, how are you claiming it looked like a bomb?

It didn't look like a bomb. It looked like an electronic thing splayed out, they asked what it was, he said alarm clock.

The second teacher knew it didn't look like a bomb, what happened is they presumed that he was trying to make it appear like a bomb. No one thought it was a bomb because it didn't look like one.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#846

Post by salamimonger »

BoorishBears wrote: post #845
salamimonger wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, here's the thing. If I make comments implicitly about going to shoot up the neighborhood school, even though I didn't do it yet, do you presume me innocent and leave me alone? No, it's going to be investigated and I'll likely get a nice greeting from some men in black soon after. This wasn't some genius, novel clock that kid invented. He put the internals of a clock into a very specific kind of pencil case to br…

> If I make comments implicitly about going to shoot up the neighborhood school, even though I didn't do it yet, do you presume me innocent and leave me alone? If you don't make those comments to me, and a news story is making the call that your comments were about shooting up a school, I'll presume you're innocent. That's literally what this is about. You're not an investigator, you're not sitting on the case files…

I'm not claiming anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident

>His English teacher thought the device resembled a bomb, confiscated it, and reported him to the school's principal. The local police were called, and they questioned him for an hour and a half.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#847

Post by ChickeNES »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #368

I know a couple of comments have mentioned this already, but this apparently grows out of him being in a pickle financially at the moment and resenting the time he has put into doing free work: https://twitter.com/marak/status/1320465599319990272 I'm sympathetic. I don't have any funds to spare to help him out. I'm chronically broke myself. I've done lots of nice things for people over the years for free. A lot of th…

I mean, according to local news he's responsible for the fire: https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/64...

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#848

Post by BoorishBears »

salamimonger wrote: post #846
BoorishBears wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I make comments implicitly about going to shoot up the neighborhood school, even though I didn't do it yet, do you presume me innocent and leave me alone? If you don't make those comments to me, and a news story is making the call that your comments were about shooting up a school, I'll presume you're innocent. That's literally what this is about. You're not an investigator, you're not sitting on the case files…

I'm not claiming anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident >His English teacher thought the device resembled a bomb, confiscated it, and reported him to the school's principal. The local police were called, and they questioned him for an hour and a half.

I misremembered the case and forgot it was the police who realized it wasn't a bomb but were trying to prove intent by interrogating him due to Texas's hoax bomb laws...

but exactly like I said above that's an aside, and the entire story just shows how little people understand of the appearance of these things if anything.

If all it takes to convince laypeople to call police on a child is a splayed out alarm clock, how many electronics hobbyists have more than enough contraptions for someone to go on record as saying "I saw a bunch of really suspicious stuff on his desk" after a fire?

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#849

Post by perfmode »

yiyus wrote: post #799
Igelau wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a parable wherein the landowner is the Christian god, the work of the vineyard is the work of his will, and the denarius is salvation. It doesn't have anything to do with people getting paid fairly, it has to do with the Christian god's generosity disrupting notions of fairness.

Sorry, but I don't get your point. I think that, independently of the original meaning of the parable (which is not at all what we are discussing here), it indeed is a nice example of having to accept the terms you negotiated without looking at what terms others get. I used the same example to explain why I think this situation is a bit different. But it is just an analogy, nobody is claiming this is the right interp…

the parable serves to introduce the idea of fundamental dignity in contrast to conventional notions of reason and merit. and ought not be taken as youve suggested

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#850

Post by salamimonger »

BoorishBears wrote: post #848
salamimonger wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not claiming anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident >His English teacher thought the device resembled a bomb, confiscated it, and reported him to the school's principal. The local police were called, and they questioned him for an hour and a half.

I misremembered the case and forgot it was the police who realized it wasn't a bomb but were trying to prove intent by interrogating him due to Texas's hoax bomb laws... but exactly like I said above that's an aside, and the entire story just shows how little people understand of the appearance of these things if anything. If all it takes to convince laypeople to call police on a child is a splayed out alarm clock, h…

I agree, it's pretty bad. But I don't think it's on the laypeople. The English teacher did the right thing. Could they live with themself knowing they could've stopped a real bombing that killed people? The problem isn't that people will call the police based on some suspicions they have in order to protect others in their community or cooperating with law enforcement and telling them what they know and have observed. What else to do?
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