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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#841
post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let me make it more clear. Let's assume two cases: 1. A programmer, his work involves programming (obvious), going to meetings, printing some reports/codes etc. The biggest problem he can do is introduce bugs in code by mistake (yes, lives can be lost that way), would you expect his peers to tell on him that he was the guy that introduced a bug that killed 300 people in a plane crash? 2. A cop, his job involves p…

Your example excludes intent. If I thought my coworker had deliberately introduced a bug that killed 300 people, I would absolutely turn them in. There is absolutely no question in my mind that I would do that. But cops do not turn in their own when they deliberately abuse their power. They in fact resign in protest when their own are investigated (Buffalo, NY), and turn out in support when their own are arraigned fo…

Intent is not obvious, unless you have evidence and that is to court to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt.

Intent to kill is something a sociopath does, do you think police force has more of them than the rest of society?

There was a time when vigilant justice didn't need court, but I don't think we want that to return (witch hunts in middle ages or lynching in 19th and early 20th century USA).

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In my country I would want the police to beat the ever loving expletive out of people who do go out in large crowds during a pandemic. Maybe in your country blind, extrajudicial violence is not a no-no. This is not the case in democratic countries. >To protect the lives and livelihoods of those affected, a curfew was imposed, which was then violated. This is a) a slippery slope (a corrupt government would declare a…

> Maybe in your country blind, extrajudicial violence is not a no-no. This is not the case in democratic countries. Police all around the world use non-lethal force when the law is being broken and the perpetrator is not cooperative. This is absolutely not blind or extra-judicial. The whole point of this is to deter this kind of behaviour, and police are equipped with batons etc. for this reason. > This is a) a slipp…

>Police all around the world use non-lethal force when the law is being broken and the perpetrator is not cooperative. This is absolutely not blind or extra-judicial. The whole point of this is to deter this kind of behaviour, and police are equipped with batons etc. for this reason.

a) That it happens around the world (which by the way it does not, protesters broke curfew laws in e.g. Germany and there was not nearly as much violence), does not make it right and b) there was a lot of indiscriminate violence against non-violent (just breaking curfew is non-violent) protesters. The police have in no way the right to act violently upon just because you have broken the law, the bar is much higher than that.

>I would agree if this was the case in this instance but this is not the case...

Do you understand what "slippery slope" means? This time it was maybe not the case.

>Death, destruction of property, theft, loss of livelihoods. This is not what one expects in a civilized place.

While police stepping on the throat of an innocent civilian until he dies is expected in a civilized place? Those riots did not spring up spontaneously from nothing, they are a reaction to a situation.

>Material wealth is a disingenuous framing. Someone's grocery shop is not accurately categorised as material wealth - it is their source of livelihood and it is a resource for the neighborhood.

So... Material wealth. I don't see where I was disingenuous. Societal progress is much more valuable than any shop.

>I denounce anyone who sets the shop of a small storekeeper or restauraunteur on fire, destroying their livelihood.

So you do denounce all those things I mentioned. You understand that by not having those things we would still live in a pre-feudal society, right? There is no such thing as non-violent change, read a history book.

Should we be happy that a small storekeeper lost his shop? Absolutely not. But we should see it from a historical perspective that this is how change sometimes looks like.

>How does this behavior help anyone?

Again, read a history book. No one is focusing on the poor Roman store owner who had his store burned down by rioting slaves in 70 B.C. No one is focusing on some restaurant being burned down during the Watts riots in 1965. Those are transient events that impact the few (as devastating as they might be for the owners, they are but a drop in the ocean for society as a whole).

>You can enact social change through all sorts of violence but it is most certainly not something that decent and civilized people ought to support.

Until you invent a better way, I will support social change by any means necessary. You focus on the 10 owners who had their stores burned down once. I focus on the millions who are repressed and killed every day.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#843
post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the vast majority of policemen are not beating people up.

All 57 members of Buffalo's emergency response unit resigned in protest of disciplinary actions taken against the men who shoved a 75 year old man and then walked over his body while he bled from the ear. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-off... It's not at all obvious to me that the majority of policemen don't support the abuses, even if they aren't all getting their hands dirty.

I can't access the link because it's paywalled, but I assume you're talking about this clip: https://youtu.be/kGsqg5vtahA . EDIT: Found the free button :). Yeah, I guessed right.

I can't see how you can classify this as an abuse. Yeah, the cops should have apprehended him instead of pushing him after he started scanning their equipment, or whatever he was doing, but it's very clear from the clip the officers had no intention of harming the man. You even have some guys in green checking on him at the tail end of the video. The officer which pushes him also appears to try to help immediately after the incident - even if it's not exactly clear what he was trying to do -, before he is pushed back in formation.

Did any officer resign in solidarity with George Floyd's murderer? Or in some other incident which we can all agree is an abuse?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially compared to other countries, the US police seem to show quite the restrained There have been multiple instances where the us police shot someone and fired more bullets in this situation than the while german police in a whole year. And i don't mean big standoffs but shooting a single person. /edit: in 2018 the german police fired a total of 54 bullets on persona killing 11. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wik…

I agree that police violence and brutality is at unacceptable levels. However, number of bullets fired may not be a good statistic. My understanding is US police officers are trained to fire the whole magazine of rounds.

> My understanding is US police officers are trained to fire the whole magazine of rounds.

No, this is incorrect. Police are trained to stop a threat. Handguns despite what you see in movies are actually quite poor at doing this, so the accepted and common doctrine is “at least 5-6 rounds center mass”.

This is in life or desth situations where that person must be stopped or someone else will die.

If police were trained for one and reassess, they would shoot one. Trained for two; and they’ll a lot two regardless if they have a good sight picture after the first shot or not.

So the training is “stop the threat”, be prepared to shoot 5 rounds center mass as quickly as possible, move, maintain a sight picture, do all the things you need to do but focus on the target first and gun and number of bullets second.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#845
post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example excludes intent. If I thought my coworker had deliberately introduced a bug that killed 300 people, I would absolutely turn them in. There is absolutely no question in my mind that I would do that. But cops do not turn in their own when they deliberately abuse their power. They in fact resign in protest when their own are investigated (Buffalo, NY), and turn out in support when their own are arraigned fo…

Intent is not obvious, unless you have evidence and that is to court to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt. Intent to kill is something a sociopath does, do you think police force has more of them than the rest of society? There was a time when vigilant justice didn't need court, but I don't think we want that to return (witch hunts in middle ages or lynching in 19th and early 20th century USA).

> Intent to kill is something a sociopath does, do you think police force has more of them than the rest of society?

Actually, yes, they are filled with sociopaths. It's well known that lower-intelligence people become police. The police actively reject candidates with higher intelligence because the theory is that they become bored.

Also, it's well known that the occupation attracts bullies, who love the idea of bullying people and having power over regular citizens.

What you end up having is a group of low-IQ bullies, and they control the entire police force, because the "good" cops don't want to rock the boat. The stupid, boisterous bullies are the ones that create the culture of silence and complicity, and ultimately violence. I believe that cops love the idea that they are at war against the common citizen, which is why they draw their guns and escalate situations even before anything has happened.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would report someone in my company who attacked someone else with no provocation. Or murdered someone. I don't think this comparison is as good as you think it is.

Would you tell on your loved one, good friend, and/or favorite cousin if they attacked someone? What if you could rationalize what they did? What if you told on them and that meant turning your back on the rest of your family and them all shunning you, or hurting and harassing you? I think we need some massive overhauling of how accountability works in police situations and I think that will have to start with shit r…

This is the problem. The family should reject the violent individual and turn in the person as a collective.

If the police were genuinely "good", they would act as a unit and reject the bad ones. In fact, the opposite happens, and they keep silent when bad cops commit crimes, and they reject the good ones who try to actually try to be good.

This is the culture that needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#847

It's worth noting hundreds of police officers lose their life a year in the line of duty: https://www.odmp.org/search/year and many more than that receive serious injuries, even permanent spinal damage: One cop was paralyzed from the neck down in Vegas protests: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/14/police-officer-shot-... Retired police chief killed at 77 by looters in St. Louis: https://thehill.com/homenews/state…

This is not a case of a few bad apples. 75 year old man thrown to the floor for no reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4f4dXXbfEg Two of the officers responsible were suspended. In response, the /ENTIRE DEPARTMENT/ resigned: https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/buffalo-emergency-response-tea... American police need to be disarmed and fired. The idea of a professional police force (especially an /armed/ police force) ma…

You sure about all of that?

Those 50 some police did not resign from being police. They resigned from emergency response duties because they were shown that their dept will not support them.

There is also more to that “poor 75yo man” story. He is a professional agitator with a now-deleted social media history of hating the police, despite this hatred he showed up hours early before police did with a police motorcycle helmet he wanted to return because it was the right thing to do, this stated by a Buffalo/NPR reporter who he happened to be there with, while BLM activists knew/recognized him as an agitator and told him to go home, asking him why he was there and replied a few times “just for fun”, then in the full video you can see he is using he is using his phone to scan over police radios (supposedly to skim Bluetooth advertising addresses and RSSI correlation, to get someone information to listen in on private band police traffic), all of this while not wearing a mask up until the interaction with police when suddenly he has “two” masks, one which appears mouth guard of some sorts with a mask over that.

But whatever... it’s a lot easier to just say the police beat this guy (pushed him back from an advancing police line)

https://twitter.com/ConservRachel/status/1268998560412033025...

https://twitter.com/PimpG18/status/1269328910988255232/photo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CubkyIzygQ

https://twitter.com/Sep112001/status/1269696080230350849/pho...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#848
post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Black Americans are more likely to be killed by a police officer than a criminal. According to what data? In 2017, 223 black people were shot/killed by police in the US[1], while 2,627 black people were murdered by black people in the US. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... [2] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Why do you think I brought up all of the "killed by a stranger" and "familial" homicides if I was going to conclude by comparing the broadest numbers? "Killed by a criminal" is not ambiguous and very clearly does not just refer to all intraracial murders. https://granta.com/violence-in-blue/ Statistica paywalls its information but verifiable records show over 400 killings of black people every year since 2010[1]. [1]…

I should have stated earlier that I agree with the theory that the true primary cause of crime/murder is poverty.

>Why do you think I brought up all of the "killed by a stranger" and "familial" homicides if I was going to conclude by comparing the broadest numbers?

Perhaps to ignore the broader context so as to avoid confronting a big, uncomfortable, politically incorrect issue?

Dead people don't care if they were murdered by a family member or a stranger. If anything, this data is more evidence of the destruction of the family structure since the 1960s.

In 1960, 78% of black children were being raised in 2 parent households.[1]

In 2018, 65% of black children were being raised in a single parent households.[2]

[1]https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/thomas-sowell-on-the-legacy-o...

[2]https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would expect directly elected police to increase accountability I don't. I have a sheriff and I barely keep up with the issue between elections. And to be honest, local police in my area are a non-issue, I've never had issues with them personally. (IMO: this is because I live in a richer suburban area. Police are well paid, college-educated, and low-stress compared to the city police) Between the county council…

Sounds to me like your sheriff might be doing a good job and the system might be working. Now if you had a sheriff that were a real problem and still couldn't get voted out, then you'd have an example of a broken system.

Most sheriffs in USA are unopposed. Even if they do a bad job, you don't really have a choice in the vote.

Its not really a system I'm a fan of. The voting population only can pay attention to so many issues, we should have our representatives pick (and hold accountable) more positions.

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